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- Wednesday, 15 October 2008
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Sydney’s Metropolitan Community Church has splintered and is without a pastoral leader following former interim pastor Karl Hand’s last sermon on Sunday.
Rev Hand and some members of the congregation’s Crave contemporary service have separated to start a new church in the charismatic style some have labelled a mini-Hillsong.
We want to outreach to a different audience, people moving past fundamentalism but still want that Pentecostal experience, Rev Hand told Sydney Star Observer. I expect a large part will still be gay and lesbian.
MCC Sydney’s board of directors resumed the search for a permanent pastor on Tuesday night, a process that had been underway since Rev Greg Smith left for Cambodia in 2005.
Church co-director Alan Maurice told SSO there were seven or eight candidates being considered from the US, India, Caribbean and Australia, but he didn’t want to preempt the short-listing process.
How long it takes will depend on who the pastoral selection committee selects, Maurice said.
If we select someone from the US, given the process we had to go through last time, it could take anywhere up to a year.
Los Angeles-based Rev Pat Langlois had originally been selected to replace Rev Smith, but withdrew after she was unable to obtain confirmation from immigration officials one year after applying.
The board of directors asked Rev Hand to explain himself after he appeared in the national media supporting the NoToPope coalition protests in June.
One congregation member told SSO it was not the first confrontation between Hand and the board, and many of the congregation with a Catholic background were concerned Rev Hand’s support of the coalition was an attack on Catholic faith.
Couple that with dissatisfaction from members from church and from the board, Karl and others representing Crave -” the simplest analogy is a mini-Hillsong -” decided to form a new church.
Another member of the congregation told SSO the number of people attending Sunday evening services had dropped by more than half since Rev Hand took over at the Petersham church.
At least 48 people have left the Sunday night service in the last 18 months -” and they have gone nowhere or to MCC Good Shepherd at Granville, they said.
Last Sunday night there were only 24 people at the service when we used to be getting 70 or 80.
Rev Hand said, NoToPope was a factor in realising MCC Sydney wasn’t the place for me. I hadn’t intended that to cause a problem for members. But it wasn’t the reason for starting the new church.
Since Rev Hand’s resignation four weeks ago, the congregation formed two committees for congregational support and worship that will oversee the pastor functions until a permanent or interim replacement is appointed.
I’ve written to [Hand's group] and asked that we meet and talk about how to move forward in a positive light. They haven’t got back to me as yet, Maurice said.
He added that the Crave service was working well and would continue.
Most of the Crave team have remained with MCC Sydney, and it’s very much the board’s intention that nothing change.
Established in 2005, Crave was run as an alternative to the traditional Catholic/Anglican services that MCC Sydney had been known for under Rev Smith.
The Crave MySpace page describes it as dynamic/contemporary music, multimedia, guest speakers and interactive discussion to engage people.
info: The new church will be hold its first service on Sunday 9 November, 3pm at the Eddie Dixon Hall in Paddington Uniting Church on Oxford St.
This story originally quoted Rev Karl Hand as saying he no longer felt MCC was for him. In fact Rev Hand said he no longer felt MCC Sydney was for him. The online version has been corrected.
Have your say: How do you feel about the splintering of Sydney’s MCC congregation?
Tags: Karl Hand, MCC, Metropolitan Community Church, Pentecostal
October 15th, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
There seem to be a few unsubstantiated comments here:
* “style some have labelled a -œmini-Hillsong.” – Who? Some implies that multiple people have stated this, however there isn’t one, let alone “some” statements to back this up.
* “splintered” – who described the occasion as a splintering? Does anyone on the board consider it a splinter?
* “-œAt least 48 people have left the Sunday night service in the last 18 months -” and they have gone nowhere or to MCC Good Shepherd at Granville, they said.” – CRAVE and the other, more traditional style Sunday night service run on alternating weeks. The CRAVE service has been witnessing substantial growth, and is pushing up against the boundaries of its bi-weekly limitations.
Obviously what was working very well for some, wasn’t working well for others. Fair enough. We’re a diverse community. Well, here’s an opportunity. Embrace it.
October 16th, 2008 @ 8:28 am
Its not splintering its growing in a new direction. Its doubled the diversity and choices that sydneys young adults have to celebrate the God of their own understanding.
Blessings to both ministries
October 16th, 2008 @ 8:30 am
I think those splintering should be ashamed and are only trying to gain for themselves.
I am disappointed that people in a church, especially the pastor, can not find it in their heart to love and respect others who have different values.
It seems to me like the whole story is not being told by the group leaving.
This article is written by an independent, but even they couldn’t hide that yet another church has rubbish going on.
I think it is disgusting that in a christian faith community, they couldn’t be humble and work together. Where sshould GLBTIQ people go now? A church started from bad seeds of splintering, or a church that has been hurt by others who claim jesus as their saviour…
from a gay christian… I am saddened by this article. I might one day to return to church and this has just made it a little harder…
October 16th, 2008 @ 8:38 am
As a member of MCC Sydney it saddens me that it came to this for those select few people. But, we must move forward as God’s community and outreach to the gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex and queer community. MCC Sydney has a wide open door to love and “bring back to life” the struggling GLBTQI christian or ex-christian. Our door is open to those who have gone before us, who have left us, who have been hurt or angered. God is our creator and will always keep the door open, as do we.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever… It is humans who get sidetracked.
OUR DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN.
http://www.mccsydney.org
http://www.myspace.com/crave05
October 16th, 2008 @ 10:27 am
As someone who’s had a lot to do with MCC over a long time – even before the 12 year reign of Greg Smith.
I can tell you that the night service at Petersham never got 70 or 80 people. Ask a lot of people in the community – the move to Petersham was something that paralysed the church.
I feel sad – Heffron Hall is sitting idle every weekend & this new MCC group could have used it. But instead is going to a Uniting Church?? What’s that about??
And I did go to Crave sometime back. But I stopped when it would never start on time & always ran way over time. As I remember it was a band in the front & big projected words. Yes, I would say similar to experiences I had at Waterloo Hillsong.
If these people split off because of a rift… gee how unusual in the gay community? Just about every support group in the queer culture has split off at sometime or other. This is no biggie really.
I’ve heard some of the MAG’s (Mature-Aged-Gays) talk about MCC Sydney and some of them should be called BAG’s (Baby-Aged-Gays). They come around bitchin and moaning about the church under the reign of Smith. Then they came around bitchin’ & moanin about the board and then about Crave. Seems they’re never happy unless they’ve got a gripe about something.
I hope both groups get it together and have something to offer the community. And if you don’t like any of the three MCC groups – ya really don’t have to go anywhere and That’s why I don’t go.
Hooroo!
October 16th, 2008 @ 11:00 am
So a Christian church spinters into two factions. That hasn’t been surprising news in over 500 years!
October 16th, 2008 @ 11:51 am
As stated by Steven T, there are a number of sensationalist statements made in this article (some sources unclear) that are not accurate or are only partially accurate. CRAVE MCC (the new congregation beginning at Paddington next month)had planned to publicly launch officially next year & already had a Press Release planned – it’s a pity the new congregation has been blindsided in a blaze of negativity & percieved divisiveness before it has even had a chance.
For accuracy’s sake
1. No member of the new Congregation (CRAVE MCC PADDINGTON)has ever referred to that emerging organisation as a “Mini-Hillsong” & that is not how it seen from those within. Those comments have come from elsewhere. For those who are unsure “Pentecostalism” & Hillsong are not the same thing.
2. Referring to what has happened as a “congregational split” is unfortunate sensationalism. A new church plant has been set up that will service the Inner East, the original Crave (MCC Petersham) will obviously continue to serve the Inner West,& further afield, as it always has. Pure geographical logistics.
The Press Release that was due for official release in Jan/Feb 09′ by the new Paddington congregation would have made this & other things very clear, pity that it will be tainted by today’s front page. Guess you have to be quick in today’s media.
Those forming part of the new congregation have no doubt that Petersham MCC will continue being a blessing to the Sydney Community & see what has happened as nothing more than two different service styles, serving a different demographic of believers, in different parts of Sydney. We are sure there are those in the remaining congregation who feel the same way.
God’s Blessings..
October 16th, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
Hmmm, so it seems the first point I made was fully backed up in paragraph 11 – very sorry to the journalist who wrote this article! The rest… well, they depend on who you ask. Whatever. I’m not altogether comfortable with this debate happening here, so I really should just keep it zipped.
I’m not sure what the arrangements are, but I really do pray for the best for both MCC congregations, and I do hope that they can work together, share members, and the like. In the process, maybe we can heal the pains that have happened in the past, and are happening right now.
October 16th, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
How much happier and peaceful the world would be if religion didn’t exist.
If it’s not mini-wars amongst the ‘Christians’, it’s major wars and conflicts in the name of religion. If there is a god, he/she must squirm with embarrassment.
October 16th, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
Too right Ronson!!
October 16th, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
I left MCC Sydney years ago because of this sort of negativism by its elderly members against the younger crowds coming in.
How dare those young people coming from anti-gay Pentecostal churches want a service that meets their needs!
Maybe Oxford St needs a gay Hillsong. It would undoubtedly be a less damaging environment that the current MCC Sydney.
October 16th, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Ryan, attacking the messenger much? Splintering and in-fighting is practically a celebrated tradition in the GLBT community. Attacking the media for telling people about it is just stupid.
October 16th, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Ok, so maybe i’m a bit naiive about the Press Release & i see you’re point, there. I guess it will always be a race to get the balanced info out there before the unbalanced info.
As to the definition of a church split? Well, if we’re being completely realistic & candid here – let’s admit that it is as much in the interests of your paper to “talk up” division & it is in mine (as someone who cares about those directly involved) to “talk it down” (pity more people don’t feel that way).
The truth is, there is an alternative way of looking at what’s happened, but, let’s face it, if you just had on your front page “New Church for the Golden Mile” it wouldn’t have quite the same “oomph” for a front page as “MCC Congregation Splits” would it?
Let’s not ignore which Title is more sensationalistic. You are of course responsible to your advertisers to get your papers out there. I mean no disrespect in saying that, it’s just a fact. I don’t think anyone is deluded about that.
One other point that is extremely important, the leaders of the new church, to my knowledge, did not “take” anybody anywhere. People were asked to pray on, & meditate on where they felt they belonged.Even those who were enthusiastic were encouraged to be sure. I am not aware of any consequences directly related to anyone who decided one way or the other.
Anyway, it is not my role to defend the Leaders of the Church, they will do that themselves if they feel moved to. Time for me to butt out, i think.
October 16th, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Gay Hillsong in Oxford St? With one of their poofter conversion centres right next door?
They don’t like gays, remember?
October 16th, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
MCC Sydney began the first charismatic/ pentecostal style young person focussed service that caters and open its door to the GLBTQI community in Sydney. They will continue to do as CRAVE continues at the place of its inception. This service is CRAVE. It continue to this day. Our next young person focussed service is this Sunday 630pm. Our door is open for all.
Young people, of which I am included, are celebrated and encouraged within our doors.
I’ve been treated with nothing but respect by MCC Sydney and i take offence to anyone suggesting otherwise. I was accepted and loved for who I am and where I am at from the day i stepped in the door 4 years ago.
There will be bitching and fighting in any community because humans are involved. When we stop focussing on ourselves and our agendas that is when God can truly work and heal the hurting.
Thank God for churches like MCC Sydney who has people who love and hold their arms open to a marginalised community. Thank you God for giving this home.
CRAVE will continue to bless its community with the love of God.
October 16th, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
Ryan – I think there are a few of my fellow younger members would would feel blindsided by hearing about this through SSO, certainly. I’m somewhat surprised that there seems to be a resigned attitude towards so-called ‘in-fighting’. Maybe I have the wrong idea of what the Christian attitude to approaching conflict should be…
You’re very correct in that a) I, a CRAVE attendee, do not see it at all as a ‘mini-Hillsong’ (and I’m not saying that those who prefer the Hillsong style have less valid beliefs), and that b) I have perceived this as a church plant, not a split. The CRAVE service has been a fantastic part of my life for about 18 months now, and it hurts to hear it described in this way. It comes as a bit of a shock that it is seen as merely a ‘mini-Hillsong’.
October 16th, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
When there is a change in leadership within a church there is often a change in membership. Rev Greg ran Sydney MCC for a long period of time. Change is often difficult. As part of a parish in New Zealand which has been going through this stage for many years now – Sydney is still one of the few parishes that can afford to pay a pastoral leader. They have had many months to undergo the pastoral search process.
Karl is a very charismatic young pastor – and is not a “Greg Smith”. He has a unique and special pastoral oureach which is – from observation – more suited to the CRAVE MCC experience.
This cannot possibly be called “infighting”. Karl is very sensibily moving to an area suited to his skills, passion and vision. MCC sydney now has the opportunity to continue towards appointing a pastoral leader more closely aligned with their worship style and visions.
Surely all the Christians in Sydney benefit with the development of worship opportunities to meet the needs of a wider diversity of people. I look foward to worshiping at all 3 of Sydneys MCC’s in the future!!
Ka Kite
October 16th, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
Thankyou Neil for your wisdom. Steven, i’m so sorry for the confusion you feel over all of this. It must have been a rude shock.
My last Post will not make sense as it was in response to the SSO Editor whose Post now been removed.
To the Ed & to the Author of the article, for my part i apologise if this thread seems to go too far. I read SSO every week & enjoy the writing immensely. I would not be without this publication.
I’m sure you can appreciate, from a humanistic perspective, the frustration of someone who has invested in a community project & then seen something branded before it is even born – before we can do anything about it. That’s where any outrage comes from, i am certainly not questioning the personal ethics of you guys.
October 16th, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Why are people attacking Hillsong?
Maybe you don’t like the style of the service, that is one thing, but they “don’t hate gays”.
They accept all people as they are, just in the same way Jesus accepts us as we are.
Micah 6:8 is how Jesus expects us to live.
By faith we believe what He did and then run in that direction. Hillsong does everything they can to empower us to live the life that God created for us.
October 16th, 2008 @ 8:58 pm
This “church” moved away from the word of God years ago.
October 17th, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Where there is a growth in church, there will always be two sides to a story.
The most important thing in this is that there is an opportunity to make the love of Christ known to a wider community. If that means starting up a new church, then so be it.
It would be prudent for everyone to come along to both churches and have a first hand experience of the services so that you can then make up your mind of where you would like to worship.
Attacking each other serves no good, especially, when we are all called to be each other’s keeper. Churches irrespective of whether it’s mainstream or otherwise, experience growth and fluctuation. That is the nature of religion. Our role in this is to create a space where everyone can worship freely and experience the transforming love of Christ.
I am excited about the new church and also for those who have committed to stay at the old church. Irrespective of the style of worship, the main point is that, we do not stray from what we have been called.
Each person has an opportunity to change someone else’s life. Both MCC churches, as with all other MCC churches have taken a stance to do that through the lives of the many congregants who attend their services.
These are exciting and trying times, as is the case, with change. Let’s not focus on the hearsay but rather on what we can do to build a community which fosters healing and acceptance.
God’s blessing enrich you all.
October 17th, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Leave your brains in the carpark.
Go to church.
I couldn’t care about anything less.
October 17th, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
As I read the article about the “split in MCC” I couldn’t help reflect on the past history of MCC in Sydney. Over the more than 30 years MCC has ministered in Sydney there have been “splits” and differences of opinions. This is part of a dynamic and growing Christian community. This has led to the founding of MCC Good Shepherd which now provides an important outreach into western Sydney and MCC in Petersham which is one of the only GLBT organisations to own its own property. Along the way MCC has also be instrumental in founding organisations such as Ankali, BGF and CSN. Change can be difficult and conflict is usually inevitable but as a result we grow and reach out to others who may have felt left out. It is my hope that this new outreach will grow and be strong and become another option for those in our communtiy who seek a spitirual home.
Rev Greg Smith (Cambodia)
October 18th, 2008 @ 7:54 am
Dysfunctional Board equals dysfunctional church.
Lack of a Spiritual adviser/leader equals lack of morals and ethics.
Shame on you MCCSydney for trying to discredit Pastor Karl Hand and the new mission of UFMCC in order to inflate your own egos.
Beware, as God is the judge… “You reap what you sew.”
October 18th, 2008 @ 11:42 am
Hi All
My mane is Penny & I am a part of the new church plant team.
Just wanting to make it very clear that we believe in the vision and mission of MCC Sydney and know they are doing some great work with a truly wonderful community.
Planting a new MCC church in Paddington is a fantastic thing to be happening, and is NOT a church split. It is providing more inclusive and progressive Christian church options in Sydney. Considering the number of conservative & exclusive Christian churches in Sydney, i think this is a good thing :P
Now we have MCC Good Shepherd in Granville, MCC Sydney in Petersham & CRAVE MCC in Paddington, WOOHOO!!!
CRAVE MCC @ Paddington starts it’s services on Sunday 9th November @ 3pm each week.
October 18th, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
The misinformation is not in the article but in the replies is rather disturbing.
This article was not taken to the Press by the MCC board of director, so comments saying that the board is out to discredit Karl are completely false. It is obvious that Karl to this article to SSO. Editor’s note: Actually Rob, this statement not true.
Also, there was no intention for the New CRAVE MCC to reach out to people in the inner east when this was announced, originally we as attendants of MCC were told that they intended to meet in Newtown.
Another reason given for the new plant was that MCC Sydney was not in support of CRAVE being run every week, this is false also as the board said 18months ago that they supported it to be run each week. But the CRAVE team them selves decided not to due to it being to much for a small team to manage.
I myself have over the last couple of months, since the congregation was told this over phone calls, have been very upset over the way this was done. Originally when this was announced there was no reason, direction or purpose given as to why this was even happening. We were also told that the entire CRAVE team supported the move which was also false.
This whole thing has been very poorly dealt with.
Ultimately though, God will use the flawed people of his church for his purposes and good will come of this for both churches. The Gay community and especially Christians who are GLBTIQ need these churches, there are a lot of people the the GLBTIQ community who have been hurt and rejected in the past (hopefully not so much in the future) by not fitting into what the church expected. I hope that they can find MCC and other organisations so that they can come to the realization that it is OK to be Christian and be Gay.
October 18th, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
John,
Its a shame that you make such a reference without actually knowing or trying to discover all of the facts.
The new mission of UFMCC??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. So very far from the truth. Oh John, you poor deceived man.
Why do you think that the Board is trying to discredit Karl? Where is this information coming from? what evidence is there for that? One thing i have learned of late is that if you want to know the facts, go to the source. Have you done that or taken the word of a proven liar?
If he is so called by God, why then has all of the leadership of this contemporary service who are going, (except a few) remained behind? Why is he not being followed? Why would it be called a split? Why would there be so much pain and anguish left behind?
Wordsmiths are very clever people. Check the facts and have a pray before you condemn people without reserve.
You are correct, you reap what you sow. I dont want to be around to see their harvest. I can guarantee you that.
October 19th, 2008 @ 7:59 am
My decision to put religion in the Dumpster of my past has been confirmed by what I’ve read here.
If you guys believe in the teachings of Jesus what a pity you don’t follow them, for yourselves, and to set an example to those around you.
October 19th, 2008 @ 8:43 am
You have been a distant sheep hearder over the years, we as a floak have joined in prayer on the lonely hill,hoping to be lead along the Birery Hedge,but now we are in the Pasture all alone,with only our faith and to guide us by,drop your books,and HUG in faith,Their are many in positions like that of yours, but faith and love shines through I know you have it but you must show even to the sheep, Who now without someone real waiting in a circle for the Wolf Look after them at night,fall and let others turn to you now,please in your new endeavours,give whats really inside you up to others, for we all need love and faith, but alone as you seam to work,you do not seem to shared
urself for the word of the Father.
so please let others truely see, the goodness truely in thee
Yours a servant under the one and ever loving Father
October 19th, 2008 @ 9:34 am
My introduction to MCC was through SSO about 7 years ago when I saw an ad for the Christmas Eve service at Town Hall. Fast track to 2005 and a change in my circumstances, I started attending MCC Sydney on a very regular basis. During this time I have made some really good and close friends. Everytime I go to MCC Sydney I am always made to feel welcomed.
When I first heard about the new church plant, I was a little confused by the information that was out there. Someone asked me whether I would stay with the exsisting or move to the new one. My response then, as it is today, was that I would wait to see where and when the new church would open.
If I wanted to, I could get involved in the politics of this situation. I choose not to. When I go to church, it is to spend time with my God. My faith is personal. I don’t fit into the BAG or MAG demographics. I am completely comfortably with either the traditional or comtemporary styles of worship. The fact that Sydney will now have a third MCC is testament to important work that is still to be done. Whilst we live in a great city, there are many people who have been hurt as they tried to reconcile their faith with their sexuality.
The beauty about MCC is that Everyone has a place at God’s table. I will be claiming mine tonight.
See you there
October 19th, 2008 @ 11:56 am
As a member of the new mission, I have been watching and reading the comments that have been made about MCC Petersham and the new UFMCC Church mission Paddington and I find it sad that so many people who actually worked together at MCC Petersham argue about the growth of more MCC Churches in Australia.
The reality is that there is a new Church plant and some people have moved their membership and some people have chosen to stay at MCC Sydney, Petersham. The word split is used by some in the comments I read, but I only see opportunity, opportunity to reach out to people who are looking for a Spiritual home be it MCC at Paddington, Petersham, Newcoast, Granville or somewhere overseas where homosexuality itself is still viewed as a crime. MCC offers people in the whole community a safe inclusive space to worship, whether you are part of the GLBTIQ community or find that you are unable to worship in the Church of your parents.
It is about choice and I have never had a problem with people choosing. As an ex board member and ex Pastoral Search Chairperson (both positions I relinquished of my own accord), I am stunned by comments made about misinformation.
I think the only information that is important is that a group of people have decided to plant a new Church (mission), in consultation with the Regional Elder for the denomination(UFMCC). It aims to be an inclusive and progressive Church and my hope is that anyone can feel safe to worship here.
October 20th, 2008 @ 8:07 am
MCC is now 40 years old and has spread to at least 20 countries around the world. It is not hard to believe that from place to place its spiritual and religious expression varies greatly according to the needs and culture of the people. In the USA churches display a wide spectrum of styles, including, traditional, charismatic, gospel choir and even some with feminist overtones. In Nigeria, our congregations are made up of a majority of hetrosexual people, because for reasons of that society, they are the ones excluded from mainstream worship. The diversity is enormous. I don’t know why it has taken 40 years, but at last this diversity is coming to MCC in Australia. Hallelujah!
I was excited to read Pastor Greg Smith’s comments about the diversity which MCC Sydney has shown in the past and his wishes for its future. “It is my hope that this new outreach will grow and be strong and become another option for those in our communtiy who seek a spitirual home.” and Jemma’s reminder that “MCC offers people in the whole community a safe inclusive space to worship”.
I want to say that that nothing can stop the growth of Christ’s church. Jesus Himself said that “the gates of hell would not prevail against it”. I have no doubt that Jesus is planting a new expression of God’s church in Sydney and I want to help that. To resist Christ’s purpose would seem, at least, foolish.
October 20th, 2008 @ 8:42 am
Out of adversity many moments and great movements in history have been born and grown – and the church has been part of this growth. Schisms and controversy has reigned within the church since time immemorial and will continue to do so long after readers of this column have passed into eternity.
So on a positive note, let us wish Rev Karl Hand and the congregation of Crave Paddington blessings and success as they journey together on a new path rich in faith.
Rev Robert Clark
Pastor MCC Good Shepherd Granville
October 20th, 2008 @ 9:24 am
Here are some current facts, some in response to what has been said here, some for the sake of clarity.
The Rev Karl Hand is under 30 & unemployed, he does not know how he will pay rent, or pay to eat & is running on pure faith that his calling is genuine despite those who say it is otherwise motivated. He has resigned from a job at the beginning of a Worldwide Financial Crisis because he has felt God’s urging & has a small group of people who have chosen to follow him & support him as best they can. These people are not all young, the new church is almost half people 45+, several in their 60’s. Experienced, wise, gracious people. Should the judgement of the Elders who have followed Karl be called into question, too? Where does the speculation about peoples integrity & intentions end?
If you can’t admire his/their courage, conviction & vision – perhaps at least those detractors here could have some compassion & lay off them. The pressure currently on them is surely enough. What Christian, or ordinary good person for that matter, would want to destroy a young man who is already the underdog? What would be the motivation?
With the above in mind, any suggestion that Karl would be first to contact SSO to do a “Hatchet job” on his own Church before it has even had a chance is ludicrous to the extreme & not properly thought out. As stated by the Ed here to one of the commenters, this was not the case, clearly indicating that Rev Hand was simply contacted for his “right of reply” (should he not have been?).
As to the issue of location. Yes it is true that at first Newtown was considered as a location for the new church, this was never confirmed & was mostly due to lack of available or suitable venues & the fact that one of the new churches members had a contact who controlled a venue there. Suffice to say, in the spirit of dipolmacy (& not duplicating similar services in the same area)Paddington was chosen as a more suitable area. This was further confirmed as a good choice because Paddington Uniting Church hosted MCC when it first came to Australia & before it began at Heffron Hall, Darlinghurst – the historical ties & Paddington UC’s shared status as an “open & affirming congregation” creating much warmth around the concept.
The Press Release planned for the new church launch early next year was a celebration of a joyous homecoming to the Golden Mile from which MCC Sydney originated, this was the focus & it contained no negative comment about the Petersham Church. I know, i wrote it & still have it. Now it will never see the light of day & its intention is lost amongst all the unecessary darkness swirling around here.
In fact, all members of the new church have been instructed by the leaders in no uncertain terms to be very cautious & loving in their description of the denominational sister in Petersham, so as to maintain the integrity of MCC as a whole. This has been maintained to this moment & will continue.
I wonder what it will take for the toxicity & lack of good will around this situation to die down?
October 20th, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
The thing I find disheartening in all of this, is that a lot of these conversations could have happened outside of the arena of the media.
It is true that when change happens, people have varying reactions. This is the nature of the human, regardless of faith. HOW we react, as Christians, should be an example of grace and love and truth.
People on both sides of this story are experiencing ranges of emotion as new adventures are embarked upon. To be honest, I don’t care that the media got hold of the story before a planned media statement was released. That the media got hold of this story before there was chance for healing and restoration to happen is sad.
There is always more than one side to the story. If people were willing to sit down with each other and wanted to hear someone else and what they were thinking and feeling, a lot of these assumptions would be null and void. Listening to one side alone, does not a wise man make.
You know what, regardless of how and why this has happened, it HAS happened. And there are people on both sides who want the best possible outcome.
We are, and always will be, family. And we hurt each other, whether we mean to or not. But we also forgive each other. And we want the best for each other. And we hope the best for each other, even in our disappointment.
Some things may never resolve. The people leaving will never say “split”, or even consider the concept, just as the people at Petersham are more than reluctant to call it otherwise.
We don’t have to agree, but we should be honest.
The one thing that has been evidenced here is the fact that no matter what “side” of the story has been presented, the fact that MCC, regardless of its location, wants to be a place for people to come, as they are, to meet with God. Paddington, Petersham, Granville, Melbourne, Newcastle…whatever the location, people want to be a service to God and to the community. That has never, not from any perception, been challenged. That is a great testament.
I am going to miss how things were, but I am looking forward to a present and a future that is bright and is full of love and grace. I am looking forward to a church that will be softened in its disappointment and hurt, and will use this as another way to grow closer to God and to each other.
What is that saying? “To err is human, to forgive divine”.
October 22nd, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
Again and again I cannot understand why anyone, let alone Gays, NEED a religion. Religions despise us, have killed and villified us for Centuries and continue to do so today.
Regadless of their shrouded “compassion and forgiveness” the church, any church,if it claims the bible and its false teachings against certain sects and groups then it will never truly accept gay society in its entirity and complexion.
A “Mini-Hillsong” is all gay Sydney needs. Deluding the weak into believing their self-comforting lies, I can see a branch of Exodus opening up at Gilligan’s now.
Resist all religion at all costs.
October 26th, 2008 @ 9:14 am
From a professional standpoint, making a graceful exit is the last duty of an interim pastor. This bloke split the congregation and took half of it with him to form a new organization: VERY unprofessional. He had no professional distance and was caught up in some form of factionalism. Probably doing the church a great disservice.
The important reality of leaving is that you REALLY leave, and sever your ongoing, long-term relationships with people in the congregation.