The important reality of leaving is that you REALLY leave, and sever your ongoing, long-term relationships with people in the congregation.

Regadless of their shrouded “compassion and forgiveness” the church, any church,if it claims the bible and its false teachings against certain sects and groups then it will never truly accept gay society in its entirity and complexion.
A “Mini-Hillsong” is all gay Sydney needs. Deluding the weak into believing their self-comforting lies, I can see a branch of Exodus opening up at Gilligan’s now.
Resist all religion at all costs.

It is true that when change happens, people have varying reactions. This is the nature of the human, regardless of faith. HOW we react, as Christians, should be an example of grace and love and truth.

People on both sides of this story are experiencing ranges of emotion as new adventures are embarked upon. To be honest, I don’t care that the media got hold of the story before a planned media statement was released. That the media got hold of this story before there was chance for healing and restoration to happen is sad.

There is always more than one side to the story. If people were willing to sit down with each other and wanted to hear someone else and what they were thinking and feeling, a lot of these assumptions would be null and void. Listening to one side alone, does not a wise man make.

You know what, regardless of how and why this has happened, it HAS happened. And there are people on both sides who want the best possible outcome.

We are, and always will be, family. And we hurt each other, whether we mean to or not. But we also forgive each other. And we want the best for each other. And we hope the best for each other, even in our disappointment.

Some things may never resolve. The people leaving will never say “split”, or even consider the concept, just as the people at Petersham are more than reluctant to call it otherwise.

We don’t have to agree, but we should be honest.

The one thing that has been evidenced here is the fact that no matter what “side” of the story has been presented, the fact that MCC, regardless of its location, wants to be a place for people to come, as they are, to meet with God. Paddington, Petersham, Granville, Melbourne, Newcastle…whatever the location, people want to be a service to God and to the community. That has never, not from any perception, been challenged. That is a great testament.

I am going to miss how things were, but I am looking forward to a present and a future that is bright and is full of love and grace. I am looking forward to a church that will be softened in its disappointment and hurt, and will use this as another way to grow closer to God and to each other.

What is that saying? “To err is human, to forgive divine”.

The Rev Karl Hand is under 30 & unemployed, he does not know how he will pay rent, or pay to eat & is running on pure faith that his calling is genuine despite those who say it is otherwise motivated. He has resigned from a job at the beginning of a Worldwide Financial Crisis because he has felt God’s urging & has a small group of people who have chosen to follow him & support him as best they can. These people are not all young, the new church is almost half people 45+, several in their 60’s. Experienced, wise, gracious people. Should the judgement of the Elders who have followed Karl be called into question, too? Where does the speculation about peoples integrity & intentions end?

If you can’t admire his/their courage, conviction & vision – perhaps at least those detractors here could have some compassion & lay off them. The pressure currently on them is surely enough. What Christian, or ordinary good person for that matter, would want to destroy a young man who is already the underdog? What would be the motivation?

With the above in mind, any suggestion that Karl would be first to contact SSO to do a “Hatchet job” on his own Church before it has even had a chance is ludicrous to the extreme & not properly thought out. As stated by the Ed here to one of the commenters, this was not the case, clearly indicating that Rev Hand was simply contacted for his “right of reply” (should he not have been?).

As to the issue of location. Yes it is true that at first Newtown was considered as a location for the new church, this was never confirmed & was mostly due to lack of available or suitable venues & the fact that one of the new churches members had a contact who controlled a venue there. Suffice to say, in the spirit of dipolmacy (& not duplicating similar services in the same area)Paddington was chosen as a more suitable area. This was further confirmed as a good choice because Paddington Uniting Church hosted MCC when it first came to Australia & before it began at Heffron Hall, Darlinghurst – the historical ties & Paddington UC’s shared status as an “open & affirming congregation” creating much warmth around the concept.

The Press Release planned for the new church launch early next year was a celebration of a joyous homecoming to the Golden Mile from which MCC Sydney originated, this was the focus & it contained no negative comment about the Petersham Church. I know, i wrote it & still have it. Now it will never see the light of day & its intention is lost amongst all the unecessary darkness swirling around here.

In fact, all members of the new church have been instructed by the leaders in no uncertain terms to be very cautious & loving in their description of the denominational sister in Petersham, so as to maintain the integrity of MCC as a whole. This has been maintained to this moment & will continue.

I wonder what it will take for the toxicity & lack of good will around this situation to die down?

So on a positive note, let us wish Rev Karl Hand and the congregation of Crave Paddington blessings and success as they journey together on a new path rich in faith.
Rev Robert Clark
Pastor MCC Good Shepherd Granville

When I first heard about the new church plant, I was a little confused by the information that was out there. Someone asked me whether I would stay with the exsisting or move to the new one. My response then, as it is today, was that I would wait to see where and when the new church would open.

If I wanted to, I could get involved in the politics of this situation. I choose not to. When I go to church, it is to spend time with my God. My faith is personal. I don’t fit into the BAG or MAG demographics. I am completely comfortably with either the traditional or comtemporary styles of worship. The fact that Sydney will now have a third MCC is testament to important work that is still to be done. Whilst we live in a great city, there are many people who have been hurt as they tried to reconcile their faith with their sexuality.

The beauty about MCC is that Everyone has a place at God’s table. I will be claiming mine tonight.

See you there

urself for the word of the Father.
so please let others truely see, the goodness truely in thee

Yours a servant under the one and ever loving Father

If you guys believe in the teachings of Jesus what a pity you don’t follow them, for yourselves, and to set an example to those around you.

Its a shame that you make such a reference without actually knowing or trying to discover all of the facts.

The new mission of UFMCC??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. So very far from the truth. Oh John, you poor deceived man.

Why do you think that the Board is trying to discredit Karl? Where is this information coming from? what evidence is there for that? One thing i have learned of late is that if you want to know the facts, go to the source. Have you done that or taken the word of a proven liar?

If he is so called by God, why then has all of the leadership of this contemporary service who are going, (except a few) remained behind? Why is he not being followed? Why would it be called a split? Why would there be so much pain and anguish left behind?

Wordsmiths are very clever people. Check the facts and have a pray before you condemn people without reserve.

You are correct, you reap what you sow. I dont want to be around to see their harvest. I can guarantee you that.

This article was not taken to the Press by the MCC board of director, so comments saying that the board is out to discredit Karl are completely false. It is obvious that Karl to this article to SSO. Editor’s note: Actually Rob, this statement not true.

Also, there was no intention for the New CRAVE MCC to reach out to people in the inner east when this was announced, originally we as attendants of MCC were told that they intended to meet in Newtown.

Another reason given for the new plant was that MCC Sydney was not in support of CRAVE being run every week, this is false also as the board said 18months ago that they supported it to be run each week. But the CRAVE team them selves decided not to due to it being to much for a small team to manage.

I myself have over the last couple of months, since the congregation was told this over phone calls, have been very upset over the way this was done. Originally when this was announced there was no reason, direction or purpose given as to why this was even happening. We were also told that the entire CRAVE team supported the move which was also false.

This whole thing has been very poorly dealt with.

Ultimately though, God will use the flawed people of his church for his purposes and good will come of this for both churches. The Gay community and especially Christians who are GLBTIQ need these churches, there are a lot of people the the GLBTIQ community who have been hurt and rejected in the past (hopefully not so much in the future) by not fitting into what the church expected. I hope that they can find MCC and other organisations so that they can come to the realization that it is OK to be Christian and be Gay.

Just wanting to make it very clear that we believe in the vision and mission of MCC Sydney and know they are doing some great work with a truly wonderful community.

Planting a new MCC church in Paddington is a fantastic thing to be happening, and is NOT a church split. It is providing more inclusive and progressive Christian church options in Sydney. Considering the number of conservative & exclusive Christian churches in Sydney, i think this is a good thing :P

Now we have MCC Good Shepherd in Granville, MCC Sydney in Petersham & CRAVE MCC in Paddington, WOOHOO!!!

CRAVE MCC @ Paddington starts it’s services on Sunday 9th November @ 3pm each week.

Rev Greg Smith (Cambodia)

The most important thing in this is that there is an opportunity to make the love of Christ known to a wider community. If that means starting up a new church, then so be it.

It would be prudent for everyone to come along to both churches and have a first hand experience of the services so that you can then make up your mind of where you would like to worship.

Attacking each other serves no good, especially, when we are all called to be each other’s keeper. Churches irrespective of whether it’s mainstream or otherwise, experience growth and fluctuation. That is the nature of religion. Our role in this is to create a space where everyone can worship freely and experience the transforming love of Christ.

I am excited about the new church and also for those who have committed to stay at the old church. Irrespective of the style of worship, the main point is that, we do not stray from what we have been called.

Each person has an opportunity to change someone else’s life. Both MCC churches, as with all other MCC churches have taken a stance to do that through the lives of the many congregants who attend their services.

These are exciting and trying times, as is the case, with change. Let’s not focus on the hearsay but rather on what we can do to build a community which fosters healing and acceptance.

God’s blessing enrich you all.

Maybe you don’t like the style of the service, that is one thing, but they “don’t hate gays”.

They accept all people as they are, just in the same way Jesus accepts us as we are.

Micah 6:8 is how Jesus expects us to live.
By faith we believe what He did and then run in that direction. Hillsong does everything they can to empower us to live the life that God created for us.

My last Post will not make sense as it was in response to the SSO Editor whose Post now been removed.

To the Ed & to the Author of the article, for my part i apologise if this thread seems to go too far. I read SSO every week & enjoy the writing immensely. I would not be without this publication.

I’m sure you can appreciate, from a humanistic perspective, the frustration of someone who has invested in a community project & then seen something branded before it is even born – before we can do anything about it. That’s where any outrage comes from, i am certainly not questioning the personal ethics of you guys.