Loading ...- Category:
- Community, News
- Author:
- Scott Abrahams
- Posted:
- Wednesday, 20 May 2009
The Mardi Gras parade and official after-party will be held on different weekends in 2010.
Next year’s parade will be held on February 27, while the party will be held on March 6. Fair Day will be held on 21 February and Harbour Party on 28 February.
The festival will also be cut back to two weeks.
New Mardi Gras CEO Anna McInerney said the decision to split the parade and party was an evolutionary one.
We’ve looked at how other major festival-type events are produced around the world and one of the clear lessons is that they run as a series of parties, she said in an official statement.
Rio and New Orleans are not just a single parade Â-” though they have that as their core. They encompass many small parades and parties and go on for days. That is what we want to bring to Sydney at Mardi Gras and in particular that final week.
The 2010 season theme, Mardi Gras’ History of the World, will be an exploration of gay people’s stories through the ages and a queer take on some of the great moments and figures of history.
Festival executive producer Danielle Harvey said the decision to further cut the festival back, now to two weeks, was also based on other international events.
A review of major arts festivals around the world showed they were typically two-week festivals, she said.
By moving to two weeks we will be able to create a much more impactful experience for both local and international audiences.
NMG chair David Imrie said the changes to the festival would continue to make it one of the best in the world.
Mardi Gras has already evolved out of all recognition from the 1978 march to become a major arts festival, party promoter and world-famous event, he said.
This would not have been possible without flexibility and creativity in how we program. A good example was the move to a summer parade. If that hadn’t happened the event would never have grown to the stature it has.
Have your say: Should the parade and party be held on different weekends?
Vote now in our online poll.
Tags: Anna McInerney, Danielle Harvey, David Imrie, Fair Day, Harbour Party, Mardi Gras Festival, Mardi Gras parade, New Mardi Gras
May 20th, 2009 @ 12:21 pm
Knowing New Mardi Gras and their game of ‘lets make money’, Im left asking – how much more money will this make them. It certainly wont be about benefiting the community or they would have put the idea out in the community arena and asking for feedback before making this decision!
May 20th, 2009 @ 12:44 pm
You’ve got to be bloody joking?
Sounds like Mardi Gras is desperate to make that lame duck Harbour Party profitable – but are they prepared to do it at the expense of the official party – which is the only thing that makes money for them?
Let’s hope this gamble pays off – or we might not have a Mardi Gras again …
May 20th, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
Well it is good they are trying different things … will wait and see how it works before I get on my soapbox
May 20th, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
So we have gone from four weeks to three weeks to two weeks …
And now we are splitting the party and the parade.
I wonder if people have been asked about this – genuinely asked – or if this is just another decision made by the board?
Remember the BGF Glamstand debacle last year.
Oh, and as a member I am yet to be advised of this change …. wonder when they will bother telling us.
May 20th, 2009 @ 1:00 pm
There is something really amazing about heading to the party after the excitment of the parade……I would hope that this excitment build up is not lost with a 7 day stint in between.
May 20th, 2009 @ 1:04 pm
If more people went to cultural events and not just the places where they can be drug pigs then the festival probably would be longer.
I couldn’t care less if the party is on a different Saturday to the parade. It’s actually a fabulous opportunity for lots of smaller promoters to put up events for parade night.
May 20th, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
I think it’s a great move. Three big weekends in a row! I haven’t been to the parade for five years because I’ve been at home resting and getting ready for the party. Now I will be able to go to both. Well done Mardi Gras!
May 20th, 2009 @ 1:10 pm
Hummm Midsumma in Melbourne has done the same thing and has cut back the festival to two weeks… which will make it more compact as well. BUT it finnishes on the Sunday with the Pride March in St kilda which ends with a 5 hour beach side free concert/party for everyone, so hopefully MG will offer something simular at the end of the parade!
May 20th, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
Mardi Gras “weekend” in Sydney is packed with people from overseas and interstate coming for the parade and party. Surely splitting them NMG are going to lose a huge number of patrons. who will want to come to sydney just for the usual sterile party at Fox? without the parade before, it just becomes another ‘Sleaze ball party’ which no one really goes to anyway.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
Cutting the festival down to 2 weeks is a great idea, allot more people will come and experience it all. Whoever decided to separate the party from the parade must have rocks in their head. It defeats the whole purpose of the day and dilutes the excitement of it all. Sticking the Harbour Party the next day is a desparate attempt by NMG to make money on something that flopped this year. Look like 2010 could be the last Mardi Gras.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Oh Mardi Gras, what have you done?? without the Party afterwards the gays will stay well away from the parade so lets rebrand it to make all the westie spectators feel at home. how about Bogan Pride? thinking outside the box is great but this time i think you have thought with your bank balance firt. Change it before it back fires because there is no way it will work. how many gay Parties at the EQ have failed? no one likes it there and without the tourists after the parade buying tickets your screwed.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
I think we should suck it and see. If it turns out to be benefical to the GLBT community everyone will be praising them instead of jumping on the bandwagon. I also worry about the parade. If people get to the end and then feel a lull of what or where to from here Mardi Gras will fizzle out. But as they say change is good. Major events have always had an opening and a closing. The after party should be the closing. I just hope MG organise someone who is well known and liked by the Gay community. Tina Arena is not that person. Good luck MG and I hope it goes well for you.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:18 pm
I agree with Ian, i usually fly in on the friday evening and stay til Sunday night. It’s not worth it just for the parade and to fly in to go to just the party. i don’t think so, Same music, Same Venue, Same performances. I will stick with Melbourne.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:21 pm
Who does David Imrie think he is? King of Oxford street?
Has he forgotten the community he represents and the pain we went through to keep this organisation alive? Don’t we, the members and volunteers who work tirelessly every year to keep this a community event deserve a say?
I thought Mardi Gras was supposed to keep getting bigger and better, this is just condensing it and is a blatant grab for more money from not one but three events conveniently staged on three weekends. Next we will be charged to watch the parade. (oh thats right, you had to on foxtel this year)
BLAH…. I hope David knows what he is doing and getting advice from those people who actually know this organisation and community.
More time talking to the real Community David, and less time in the sponsor VIP parties, Kylie concerts and dance clubs. You are fast becoming the worst President/Chair in “Mardi Gras’ history of the world”.
May 20th, 2009 @ 2:43 pm
Diane,
Mardi Gras Members were sent an email this morning!!
The change was on the cards. While it MAY diminish some numbers from overseas and interstate by splitting the parade and party – nothing ventured nothing gained!
May 20th, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
Well, theyve both lost their purpose anyway.
May 20th, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
Wow another change. What do I pay a membership fee for. Voting or to sit back and just take what is dished out . Next year are you going to announce that the Festival season will be just a week. We always look forward to the party after the Parade. Is so now after the parade we all now go to the night clubs and maybe we will al have a great time and think oh bugger the Party we have had out fun. It could backfire!!!!!
It seems like you are grasping at the last straws to try and keep it all afloat.
Who knows you might even try a parade in one state and the party in another.
I know these can be tough times but 4 weeks was always suitable to see the shows the films, theatre etc. Might be alright if you can have 2 weeks to cram it all in, I own my own business and with the functions over 4 weeks you could budget and work it all in. Now only 2 weeks to do everything… mmm Maybe I should look at doing something else over that period.
But overall it would be nice as a MEMBER to be contacted about these matters and voting after all are you not representing us???
I could write more but it will probably fall on deaf ears.
May 20th, 2009 @ 3:59 pm
Andrew,
Thats nice to hear that Mardi Gras members found out this morning. the same day as the press release. was there any consultation with the members? i doubt it. The board of mardi gras couldn’t organise there way out of a paper bag all they care about is how many ‘AAA’ passes they get. Its the members and voulunteers who put in the work that i feel sorry for. The numbers for the parade and party get smaller not bigger so to diminish numbers from interstate and overseas would be suicide for mardi gras. nothing ventured nothing gained…… said the captain of the Titanic.
May 20th, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
I’m extremely curious on how this will turn out.. either way the results will surprise us in one way or another.
I was reading some articles about this news and they made these changes after doing some surveys and some results were that people were tired due to the long hours of waiting.. so maybe it’s not so bad that it’s separated.. so people can rest up and ready themselves for the next event.
May 20th, 2009 @ 4:26 pm
A two week festival? Now this will mean that we don’t get to go to as many events because of clashes in times! (will i go to the bushdance or the film fest? will i go the same sex dance spectacular or a play?) Boooo! Booo! for the cut down festival!
May 20th, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
so we have heard what people really think so far.It’s not good for Mardi Gras is it? Once the e-mails do the rounds at NMG this page will suddenly get flooded with positive praise for mardi gras’s decision, all of course written by NMG.
its amazing what the board members will do to blow smoke up there own arse and the sad thing is they believe what they write about themselves.
No one really belives that this was done with the community’s best interests at heart. Not long til the AGM. it’s time for a change and preferably a co-chair that is more qualified than a real estate agent.
May 20th, 2009 @ 5:09 pm
Mardi Gras has just betrayed its community for making such a huge decision without asking its people
May 20th, 2009 @ 5:20 pm
What a waste of time! The parade and party are watched and attended by millions globally. I watch it on Foxtel down here in Melbourne if i can’t make it up to Sydney. People don’t have the money thay used to have. If money is the real problem, cut the funding elsewhere. Fred bloody Nile is gonna milk this for all it’s worth. Big Big Mistake. Andrew Peter Collins, Melbourne.
May 20th, 2009 @ 5:35 pm
Who in the Mardi Gras has been watching Mel Brooks’ movies ? History of the World ?? Will this be Part 1 or Part whatever ?? What a stupid idea for a theme – will there be tortured souls on display ?
As for the splitting up of the party and parade – again – whom was the bright spark with this idea ? You drag people into the city to see the parade, and then tell them you need to go home and come back next weekend. What is the point ? And what about those tourists whom come specifically for the parade and the party ? Is the MG simply just going to dump the parade crowd at the Moore Park area and say nick off ? The exhilaration of the parade will not be replicated at some poor week later dance party. That the After Party itself has lost its ’soul’ and is more about making money from overpriced tickets and drinks makes me think its time to move on. The party is well and truely over.
May 20th, 2009 @ 5:37 pm
The Mardi Gras format is unique to Sydney. If you split it up, be prepared for a lot of fallout. Mardi Gras is watched by millions globally ( i have friends in London and The States) and the parade and after party are legendary. Don’t cut corners, cut floors. Did anyone really go through this with a fine financial tooth comb? I doubt it. Melbourne has lost all of its parties because out volunteer gene pool just dried up. I was a Melbourne DJ for many years (1978-1995) and i miss our Melbourne parties so much. There must be another alternative! Fred Nile is gonna milk this backflip for all it’s worth. This is a big big mistake. Andrew Peter Collins, Melbourne.
May 20th, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
The commercial and heritage impact of splitting the parade and party doesn’t really bother me.
We’ll get over that soon enough and either embrace it or revert to the original format.
My only concern in is that there will now be 2 weekends in which drugs and alcohol will damage so many people in our community.
But as a plus, the hospitals, medical centres, police, and later the NSW court system and lawyers, will be able to earn a lot more money; dealing with the consequences of possssion, trafficking, drink driving and many other offences, not just for one week, but for two.
Who said New Mardi Gras didn’t have a social conscience?
They want to stimulate the economies of health and legal industries.
May 20th, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
Lovely personal attacks on David Imrie people. Jealous perhaps? Don’t forget that Mardi Gras has a board of eight and a staff as well who are all involved in the decision making process. And also don’t forget that that same group of people just delivered the best Mardi Gras in years and years. Have some faith. I for one am happy that the party is a week after the parade, so i can rest my aching feet and finally go to a party and enjoy it.
May 20th, 2009 @ 7:12 pm
As someone from overseas I think they have done the right thing: At this years NMG we haven’t had the chance to watch the parade with any of our Sydney friends as ALL of them had to ‘powder their noses’ already for the BIG NIGHT instead. So I guess it’s a great chance to get a certain part of the community back ON THE STREET, for what this overall festival purpose stands for, am I right? Well done NMG and 12 points from Europe for this move!
May 20th, 2009 @ 7:24 pm
I actually like the idea… 2 big parties over two weeks!… It will benefit the community, as instead of going to MG party after the parade, people will stay on the scene, or support things like homesexual… it’s two costumes, so local retailers win as well.. and we all win, by getting to go out and freely enjoy our sexuality two days a year rather than the one we currently get.
Great Work David, Kudos!
May 20th, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
thank god! we’re from the Goldcoast, come down every year and like all non sydneysiders find we miss out. two weeks is a norm for most of us to have off each year to celebrate our mardigras and let our hair down too. seems most people who complain are locals who have forgoten that its not about you, but us, and all the other gay guys who dont live on the doorstep!
May 20th, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Well, I hear KordaMentha has already put out the 2011 theme: Insolvency!
May 20th, 2009 @ 9:49 pm
Can the Mardi Gras Board be serious in proposing such a huge change without any meaningful consultation with members? Who do they think they are? When is the AGM … or can we hold a special meeting?
May 20th, 2009 @ 10:13 pm
absolutely ridiculous.. what a money grab.. DISGRACE… that’s now 3 visits/3 fights to enjoy the parade/party and the brilliant (wouldn’t miss) Harbour Party (which was always the 2nd party of the season).
It’s ok if you live in Sydney – NOT ok if you have to travel, like MANY do.
So, gone are the nights, you can enjoy a parade with a vast variety of friends, and then proudly walk in the direction of Fox Studios for the best party of the year…
The area after the parade is already full with those not going to the after party – can someone tell me where you plan to accommodate another 20,000, not to mention the volunteers that will be looking for a party afterwards?
Disgrace…
May 20th, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
hell there’s nothing duller that a smarty-pantsed homo. mardi gras history of the world is the perfect theme for 2010 as it will provide a vehicle for all the tragic bitter wannabe know-nothing nobodies to showcase their incredible lack of insight, compassion and knowledge. hopefully nmg will provide complimentary frosted mirrors to all self-obsessed judgemental drug-fuelled know-alls (ie the gay population of sydney) at the party so they can continue to feel unjustifiably pleased with themselves and their less-than-adequate appendages. meanwhile nmg can go from strength to strength knowing that they are supporting the commuity while milking it for all it’s worth. history of the world – gosh, how self idulgent, but how fitting for such a lame self obsessed community. separating the parade and party… even better. now those mincy little nobodies will have to buy two next-to-nothing costumes. i sincerely hope the good folk at nmg have shares in show-me-your-bits.clothing.com. if so then mardigras will never go broke again and all the little drug addicts of sydney will have some purpose at least one night each year. nmg, well done, you have proved once again that you truly do understand your constituency. see you under the mirror ball!
May 20th, 2009 @ 11:36 pm
Like some people have said “nothing ventured, nothing gained”, if the new format does not work, then at least NMG tried something different (and they can revert back to the old ways). I can guarantee there will be some promoter filling in the gap for an after party at the Hordern. BRING IT ON!!!!
May 20th, 2009 @ 11:49 pm
Great idea but can we also look at making the parade about an hour shorter, God it DRAGS on ( no pun intended ) !
May 21st, 2009 @ 7:58 am
People, let’s look at this a little more objectively.
We all bitch, whinge and moan about Mardi Gras, about how it isn’t political enough, is too political, hasn’t changed, isn;t representative, is too expensive, too exhausting, blah blh, blah, blah, blah.
So New Mardi Gras have obviously heard this for years.
Now they decide to try something different and off we all go – bitch, whinge, moan ……
Is there any pleasing you lot?
My advice – let’s give it a go for 2010 and see how it works.
You never know, it may just be the greatest season we’ve ever had.
Of course, it may also be crap.
But until we try it we have no way of knowing.
I too am a long-time critic of Mardi Gras, and while this may not have been the solution I’d have offered, I am at least pleased to see they are attempting to do something a little different.
May 21st, 2009 @ 8:01 am
All those consultations and I managed to miss every one??? I cannot believe that NMG has made such a major change to the nature of MG without due consultations with members…bring on the AGM I say
May 21st, 2009 @ 9:09 am
Oh Dear. How to alienate all the people coming to Sydney for Mardi Gras on the Atlantis Cruise. I would be pissed if I paid for my ticket to find that I was in Sydney on the wrong day.The ship is in Sydney on the 27th and 28th Feb. So they will now miss the Party. It appears it has sold out too. Not that easy to move dates on a ship!
May 21st, 2009 @ 11:38 am
Well hopefully this will spell the end of the whole bloody festival …
Isn’t it enough you already have a street to yourselves every weekend?
Why do you need a fairy parade to tell everybody you break God’s law?
May 21st, 2009 @ 11:41 am
So when will the climax of the festival be? the Parade? the Harbour Party? or the After Party?
I think NMG have got this all backwards!!!
May 21st, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
C’mon people, lets give it a go and see what happens…
May 21st, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
Jason – “Well it is good they are trying different things -¦ will wait and see how it works before I get on my soapbox”
- For the record I never said that, Could the other “Jason” who has just poped up today and started posting comments could they please use another user name like “Jason1″ or “Jason2″. Thanks
May 21st, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
seems like the decision has lots of ramifications….I guess NMG have discussed much of them. Shame there wasn’t more community consultation….and I understand how pissed off actual members of NMG must feel not having a voice.
Personally, the division of party and parade is welcome for me. As a parade participant for the last three years there was no real energy to do the party after organising….standing around 4 hours waiting for the parade to begin.
I tried it one year and ended leaving after two hours to go home because i was exhausted. it was and expensive couple of hours.
Dear str8ty ….you obviously haven’t been on Oxford St on the weekend for years. http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2008/08/27/more-steps-to-curb-homophobic-violence/1395
Gays and lesbians are not people who are violent and go around bashing people. You have that label all to yourself. Once again by posting here…..you are invading our space.
May 21st, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
I fully support the new MG format for 2010.
It provides an opportunity to extend the excitement from a single day to two weeks.
It also prevents the conflict between parade and party as most people do not have the energy to do both.
Congratulations NMG for the courage and the vision!!
May 21st, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
Dearest str8ty,
Mardi Gras is a celebration of the human spirit.
Your straight kind has the whole world 365 days per year and look at the conditions its in. At the end of the day gays don’t kill in Gods name, fly planes into buildings or denigrate women around the world just to feel secure.
We celebrate life and it’s diversity!!!
May 21st, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
Christmas and New Year’s Eve are a week apart and we all manage to cope then. Just a thought!
May 21st, 2009 @ 5:13 pm
What a joke, do they expect all of us from interstate to fly to Sydney for 2 weekends in a row??? It will be parade or party this year not both.
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:37 pm
What a surprise. This person is telling gay men they cant celebrate THEIR parade and party on the same night, I mean look at the ration of gay men to Lesbians that will be there and I think you will see we out number them 100 to 1. Come on boys stand up for yourselves, its your weekend dont lose it to the dykes.
Editor’s note: Justin, this really has nothing to do with gender. Mardi Gras is made up of a board of gay men and lesbians. It is the board that makes these decisions, not the CEO.
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
Seems everyone has opinion …. my suggestion is shut up, wait and see what it is like and then make your comments.
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:47 pm
Grow up Justin ……
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:48 pm
I think there is a positive and a negative side to this.
On the positive, at least the parade volunteers will be able to enjoy the party.
On the negative side, I can see there are going to be a lot of people spending an entire wekk – if not two – on some kind of illegal substance and that can’t be good.
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
I reckon a lot of people will pick one or the other – there is no way they will go to both.
And let’s face it, the parade is pretty straight and commercial these days (geesh, even IKEA is allowed to have a float – what have they ever done for the sydney gay community except take money from queens with no taste!)
So who cares really …. I’d suggest going and finding something else to do on both weekends.
Visit your mother – I’m sure she would appreciate it.
May 21st, 2009 @ 6:52 pm
Are you happy now Jason?
There’s more than one of us on the world you know …. and as if anyone can tell one from the other one here anyway ..
May 21st, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
Miranda, just with youre comment “Are you jelouse”? – Very immature,lame with no meaning – Just like the decision from MardiGras.
May 21st, 2009 @ 7:45 pm
The majority of people that will watch the parade now will be straight people – Gays arent really supportive of the community anymore, all we think about is drugs and going to the gym. Its funny, we once where fighting to keep Oxford st friendly and more gay – now that you have done this, mardigras is going to be the most dangerous night (double now)
Why do pill poping junkies get to make big decisions in the commmunity?..
May 21st, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
Jason 1 2 3 4 – Ive got better things to do.
May 21st, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
Great – another rogue board doing whatever they want without the consultation of the gay and lesbian community. What do i pay membership fees for?? Mardi Gras almost died a few years back. It looks as though this will be the first of many nails in the coffin. Perhaps our membership fees could have been used to hire a hall and have a community vote/forum and then make a decision. Opening up the Sydney Morning Herald this morning to find it splashed in the paper about the change was very poor form. You can count me out next year – and also my membership.
I hope the board wakes up and realises that this is a comomunity organisation!!!!! w**NKERS
May 21st, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
Great – another rogue board doing whatever they want without the consultation of the gay and lesbian community. What do i pay membership fees for?? Mardi Gras almost died a few years back. It looks as though this will be the first of many nails in the coffin. Perhaps our membership fees could have been used to hire a hall and have a community vote/forum and then make a decision. Opening up the Sydney Morning Herald this morning to find it splashed in the paper about the change was very poor form. You can count me out next year – and also my membership.
I hope the board wakes up and realises that this is a comomunity organisation!!!!! wNKERS
May 21st, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
My mum said if you can’t say anything nice then don’t say anything … be nice.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 4:25 am
The Parade is supposed to be the highlight / culmination of the whole season. It is ,after all, the whole reason and purpose for everything, so why have it in the middle?! The season ends with the parade/party. It’s what we work towards. It should be at the end.
The whole point of the party is that it’s an “after” party (as in, “after the parade”). Don’t the organizers know this?! It’s really basic stuff. The old format always had major events to punctuate it and keep the excitement going. Launch, Pool Party, Fair Day, Harbour Party, Parade/Party. The NMG board has progressively taken away the all of the exciting events, and has lost sight of what Mardi Gras is about, how a “season” runs, and what it has to offer. Why split two things that intrinsically belong together.
Who did the NMG board survey to come up with this idea? Each other? Because they certainly didn’t consult with the community.
I believe that the board and CEO of NMG have seriously lost their way. I really don’t think that they know what they’re doing.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 10:30 am
People are attached to their version of MG. Mine’s a circa 1990 one night parade/party. Everyone I knew was in the parade or watching it and all walked to the party afterwards and danced all night. Oxford St was OURS and the hardest drug taken was E. Oh, and I was a 19 yo country boy spending my first year out of home in the big city.
Whatever happens, I hope today’s boys and girls stay safe and make their own happy memories.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 11:08 am
Well done NMG for a new revitalised image. We need people at the helm who have vision and courage to take MG to the next level.People will always resist change, better the devil you know than don’t!
I personally look forward to the new format as it will give greater opportunity for more people to participate than concentrating the apex of the festival in just one night.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 11:10 am
Cutting the Arts Festival back to 2 weeks is problematic. Danielle Harvey says other arts festivals around the world are two weeks long. Indeed they are, but they are curated and fees are paid to the artists: they are not ‘umbrella’ festivals like Mardi Gras.
A play cannot make back its costs if it runs for two weeks or less, unless it is subsidised. Also, two weeks is not enough to build an audience through word of mouth.
I assume plays and exhibitions which are part of the Festival will open before the launch, because it is financially necessary. Shows that run past Mardi Gras’ party date historically lose audiences from that point.
NMG needs to recognise this problem and be flexible. They should be prepared to promote and support arts events that commence before the launch date, or launch the festival well ahead of the opening Fair Day.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 1:13 pm
Dieter, your claim that there was no consultation with the gay and lesbian community on this but that is not true. I am a member of NMG and in the last six months or so I have completed at least three email surveys from NMG and been to a focus group meeting. My partner recently received a phone call from someone at NMG too asking about his experiences in the Parade etc. So obviously NMG has been doing lots of consultation. I for one think this is a great move and can’t wait for 2010!
May 22nd, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
This may well be the most ill-informed and thoughtless decision made by any Mardi Gras Board to date!
They are making a disastrous mistake, and it will have a far reaching and negative affect in regards to tourism numbers associated the Mardi Gras event both International and Domestic.
What about our Gay and Lesbians brothers and sisters across Australia, in particular country and rural areas (outside of the Sydney’s GAY Ghetto) who travel to this special annual event and who may not have the financial resources available to stay in Sydney for the full 7 days between the Mardi Gras Parade (one weekend) and Mardi Gras Dance Party (the following weekend) and or make 2 trips to Sydney!
Clearly an error has been made here and the questions should be asked “what research” was undertaken to endorse the radical decision to split the Parade and Dance Party?
Concerned!
May 22nd, 2009 @ 1:57 pm
I feel there is potential to make the party and parade celebration bigger, like combine it over one week with all different activities as there’s all different sub cultures in the gay community.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 2:43 pm
Simply amazing!!! What will NMG tell the 1400 passengers that have booked on the Alantis gay cruise from Auckland to Sydney via Melbourne. They will nearly all expect to go to the after party. We already have bookings for the Noosa Mardi Gras recovery week from overseas guests that have booked to fly here after the party for their Australian holiday. These and hundreds of other overseas participants will now have their prepaid and pre booked travel plans severly upset. Is this another example of NMG ‘fortress Sydney’ policy that discourages visitors from interstate and overseas. Remember the drama this year with Events NSW and Flight Centre sponsoring Fair Day to the initial exclusion of interstate participants.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 2:43 pm
I agree Vincent, I doubt there was any research done it was simply governed and “dished” out by the board – I think they should atleast explain themselves to the community in that regard.
But look at this way, it will mean more money for drug dealers as they will now have two weekends to do business.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 5:53 pm
How much funding will Mardi Gras receive from the State Government and was a condition of increased funding that they either move MG to Homebush or separate parade and party?
May 22nd, 2009 @ 9:00 pm
I am a NMG member/party goer/parade participant/festival attender and the sort of person who turns up to consultations and responds to surveys. The only consultation that I can recall is the electronic survey that i completed, a forum some time ago on fair day, a more recent forum on Sleaze Ball(the last one I could not attend). From the disucssion and questions asked in these places, I would never have guessed this was on the horizon. Claims are made in the press release about what party goers/parade folk etc want and need based on the extensive research and consultation.
As a member I call on NMG board/CEO to:
a) Give details of exactly how and when their extensive research and consultation was conducted;
b) Release to members the research reports/data on which they have based this decision;
b) Hold a members meeting to explain how they could make such a fundamental change to Mardi Gras without discussing the proposal with members at a members meeting before the final decision was made.
May 22nd, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
There is a lot of complaining about the board making a decision without consulting it’s membership.
Whilst I agree it should have, on a PR basis if nothing else, the fact remains. It doesn’t have to.
The members elect a board to make decisions about the organisation.
Members can also vote the board out.
If enough members get together, they can call an EGM and move a vote of no confidence in the board.
So if the board and this decision really annoy you, then you need to start organising a new ticket.
Splitting the parade and party really doesn’t bother me. We’ll get over it and embrace it or scrap it very quickly.
May 23rd, 2009 @ 11:16 am
Good on the Board for showing leadership and making decisions. The proof will be in the results.
I’d suggest to Jenny Mann et al that they stand for the Board, rather than yawnsome demands about “being heard” where 20 opinionated armchair experts turn up to a meeting and claim their opinion represent tens of thousands of lesbians and gays in this city.
Stop sounding like Talkback Radio, or in Jenny’s case, a Maoist Collective about to conduct a purge.
May 23rd, 2009 @ 11:56 am
People who like gay plays are going to find it difficult to see all the plays in a two weeks period. And if they also like gay films, it will make it impossible to see both the films and the plays.
May 23rd, 2009 @ 2:05 pm
Please consider the people who travel from country N.S.W. A Split Party /parade will only mean one thing ..do we travel for the parade or the Party as most people will choose one or the other, not both? My partner and I have travelled from the North coast for over ten years now and this creates an awfull dilema..we would much prefer the parade/party to held on the same night as we always attend both.Please consider people who travel a long distance local and overseas ..Phil
May 23rd, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
This may be the answer to having more gays and lesbians watch the parade.
Many years ago there was a huge debate about moving Mardi Gras from June, where it coincided with Pride week.
The move to late summer proved a success, I hope this move similarly breathes new life into MG.
(…and yes, I am a member, no I don’t want forums, workshops, consultation meetings, committees, plenary sessions…let’s get on with it and give it a go!)
May 23rd, 2009 @ 11:39 pm
Merlot, I agree that I elect a board to lead but I also elect them to represent me as a member. When David Imrie was elected as president, he said that is was his intention to improve member communications, to involve members more and to be consultative. I can’t see those qualities demonstrated in the processes associated with this decision.
For most management decisions I expect the board to show leadership, however I don’t equate leadership with cutting members out of decisions where there input should be sought.
In changing the nature of the linkage between parade and party, the board are making a very major organisational decision which may make or break the organisation. I have seen one Mardi Gras organisation go under and I don’t want to see another. To me Mardi Gras is too important. It could be that this is the best decision ever made for Mardi Gras, or it could be that it is the worst decision ever made. I don’t believe Mardi Gras could survive two bankruptcies therefore I don’t believe that just saying ‘let’s give it a go and see what happens’ is acceptable.
To me it is a reasonable request that we members are provided with all the data/research on which this decision was based so that we can make up our own minds. To me it is a reasonable request that Mardi Gras hold a members meeting to discuss the issues and the reasons for the decision. I would like to think that New Mardi Gras were still responsive enough to members that on seeing the number of postings here, that they would organise a members meeting to discuss the issue rather than have members be forced to organise an EGM.
May 24th, 2009 @ 1:25 am
I agree with those punters who say “let’s suck it and see”.
Meanwhile, well said Alex Day. So long as the Board has done its due diligence on this — that any risks have been identified and will be managed and that the objectives of these events continue to be met consistent with the core purpose of the organisation — I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
May 24th, 2009 @ 10:44 am
It seems that everyone always bitches about Mardi Gras. For years people have said it’s getting stale.
So the board of Mardi Gras does something that looks quite clever to give it some oomph in 2010 by shortening the festival and providing three huge weekends, a move that might bring back the tourists like it used to be ten years ago when the streets were full of foreigners for a couple of weeks, and Sydney had a great atmosphere.
And then people start carrying on about the changes, saying they wanted it to stay the same.
Why don’t we just wait and see? 2010 might turn out to be the best ever Mardi Gras. Or maybe it won’t, and NMG will change the format back again. Either way, it’s not a matter of life or death here people – keep it in perspective.
And for what it’s worth, I congratulate the board of Mardi Gras for having the guts to try something new.
May 24th, 2009 @ 10:50 am
Miranda…you sound very bitter..sounds like you could benefit enormously from lightening up…maybe take a few pills and go dancing..hell you may even enjoy yourself!!
May 24th, 2009 @ 12:11 pm
Jenny, no doubt (some) members disagree.
But the thought of a meeting in the middle of winter and 30 angry people passing motions, demanding the production of documents, dismissing explanations…self-promoting activists proclaiming they represent “the members” concern.
Look at your own language…”we” “our” “the members”. It’s your opinion, your entitled to it…stand for the next Board.
Invariably, your gathering will carry a motion opposed to the move. Next? The chaos descends.
May 25th, 2009 @ 11:39 am
Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t!!!
Poor Mardi Gras committee, copping a beating for doing their job. Their unpaid thankless voluntary job.
My two cents worth on putting the parade and the party on different nights: About time, now we can all go and enjoy both rather than just one or the other. No more exhaustion.
May 25th, 2009 @ 1:03 pm
Its all going to be straight people watching the show and the floats will now be ones from straight people/community as with all this rage I’m sure allot of gay people will choose not to be part of it – Its ok for the straights I mean they don’t care about the parade being for us/our community, as long as they get a chance to wear barely nothing and act all girly on a night where it is deemed appropriate then that all that matters, as their community/lifestyle/clubs/RSL’s etc don’t allow such “dramatic” behaviour as our community does.
MG is my night, Oxford st is my street and I want them back.
Its not fair. It REALLY isn’t and for all you people telling us to shut up and to deal with it is simply wrong.
We got rorted.Simple.
May 25th, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
It’s quite obvious the community haven’t been turning out as spectators to watch the parade…which is the heart of Mardi Gras.
This move could really reinvigorate the parade and bring some excitement and buzz back to the MG season.
May 25th, 2009 @ 1:41 pm
The Mardi Gras is a Stale old, “Look at me! Look at me!” Fest which original idea came out of San Francisco and really was for the sole purpose of Legalising Homosexuality. Its Sleazy and outdated and people are starting to realise it.
May 25th, 2009 @ 2:30 pm
Oliver..you boring ole nanna (apologies to the nannas) what is wrong with a-œLook at me! Look at me! Fest for the gay and lesbian community…we spend all our waking days with the look at me heterosexual culture…walking down ANY street,in our lives , the media , marriage ,pop culture need I go on. EVERY day is the heterosexual Mardi gras and you bemoan us having one night!!!
May 25th, 2009 @ 5:31 pm
That’s so true Chris, Its funny I have to say I never thought of it that way but that actually makes allot of sense.
Also, with my previous post I meant that people from the gay community may not want to be involved in the parade from this decision.
May 25th, 2009 @ 8:26 pm
Merlot, Look at your own language. You are resorting to name calling under a pseudonym in order to stop my questions. All I am saying is that if Mardi Gras board/staff are heading down a path that they themselves identify as risky, then I as a member want to be reassured that they have made this decision based on sound research and advice. Secondly I would like to be reassured that if it fails, that there is enough -˜fat’ in the budget that the organisation would survive past 2010. Currently I am not convinced of either of those things. I could be wrong but I don’t think that I am the only member worried about this.
NMG have released a statement to members today saying that they are confident in their decision and they have taken many factors in to consideration. That may be true, but if they are confident they will have no reason not to discuss their decision and how they came to make it in a face to face meeting with members. A meeting would be an opportunity for the board to explain and also to listen to members. A face to face meeting is always better than postings on a website or email/ press releases to members. Posters have commented on the boards leadership in making this decision. To be on a board and be willing to make tough decisions is one type of leadership. It is much more difficult as a community leader to stand up in front of members and discuss your decision and to truly listen to their concerns and to me that would demonstrate a higher level of leadership
May 25th, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
The question that I have with the change is;- will people dress up for 2 nights? This really could turn the MARDI GRAS PARTY into just another party.
Sorry to say, but Mardi Gras you will not be getting my $150 (there abouts) for my party ticket and I think I have only missed 3 over the years.
A dedicated 78′er
May 25th, 2009 @ 10:23 pm
I wonder if splitting the parade and party is a precursor to moving the party to Homebush?
Watch this space …
May 25th, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
Is there is any truth to the rumour that the reason for the change has little to do with “feedback” and everything to do with NMG having booked with parade with the City of Sydney ahead of booking the afterparty with Fox studios only to find out Fox was already booked on the night of 27 February.
I suppose a suituation like a large group of visiting Americans threatening to sue for their lost holiday deposits when NMG wanted to change the parade date they’d advised them when they thoughtnof changing to parade date to coincide (as always) with a not-yet-booked party venue wouldn’t have helped any either.
Then again I’m sure its just a terrible rumour – otherwise NMG would’ve consulted with the membership about such a major change, wouldn’t they?
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:26 am
Ummm, Jenny Mann… Are you just a trouble-maker who gets off by spruiking in public from the sidelines? Or do you have such apparent genuine concerns that you have contacted NMG directly? I called David Imrie today directly and he was kind enough to discuss the reasoning behind the committee’s decision at length. Maybe you might like to do the same rather than spruik incessantly on this forum?
May 26th, 2009 @ 2:10 am
NUH crazy idea i fly from the snowy mountains victoria,i march in the parade and go to the party the excitement of the whole day is electric,why ruin a great thing its worked for 32 years gone from success to success.We always came down for 5 days,so we cant stay for any longer.We choose between the parade one week or the party the next week,we cant do both sydney is way to expensive.I think its a rotten decision and youll ruin what is a proven format,in a downturn of the economy.Bad decision but youll only learn by your mistakes and this one will be a WHOPPER,Its seen as the best party in the world.AND YOUR ABOUT TO RUIN IT
May 26th, 2009 @ 5:14 am
If I’m not mistaken the Mardi Gras is, for all intensive purposes, a private business. The very notion that it is a “community” event has been lost along time ago. I think the GLBT community of Sydney needs to re think entirely, the very notion of “community” as it pertains to this event. We should start by being honest about what this parade truly is . . .now.
Mardi Gras may have begun as a political protest but it truly isn’t that any more, despite the infusion of political satire (etc) in the parade, the reality is, it is primarily a parade to entertain people.
On that note, if we start by seeing Mardi Gras for what it is . . .a parade and party event for entertaining people, and for making money, and stop confusing it with the ideals of “community” and the very important political work that continually needs to be done in our fight for equality, then i think we will all be less inclined to hang all our hopes and dreams as a “community” on an annual parade and party that serves only to make money for the Mardi Gras board and businesses associated with hosting it.
Mardi Gras is not a community event like the countless gay pride events held annual else where, it has morphed into a total different beast with a specific corporate agenda . . . and we all know that.
And that is fine, as long as we all understand that.
However as a community we are still struggling to ratify our rights as individuals within Australia society, and are fighting to be taken seriously politically. I don’t think Mardi Gras is helping us in this regard any more.
Instead i think it has created a very negative perception, (politically speaking) for us as a community that links us with drugs and partying rather than the more serious day to day, practical issues we still need to fight for.
That is why we need to start a discussion in the round about what Mardi Gras is, and start separating it from what our political fight ought to be, because we still have a long way to go on that front in Australia.
May 26th, 2009 @ 11:56 am
Wow, seems just about everybody has an opinion about this – thank God SSO allows us to voice our opinions on this site.
What is clear to me is that the so-called consultation process Mardi Gras went through probably didn’t exist – or was a poll of such a small number of people it was really a non-event.
What a shame … roll on the AGM … I will certainly be voting this time around.
May 26th, 2009 @ 11:56 am
Um so what, when the parade finishes next year, independent promoters will have thier private parties running making money for thier own back pockets?
May 26th, 2009 @ 11:59 am
hhmm will be interesting to see how it goes….the effect it will have on international visitors, how many straight people hit the street, will the buzz die down between the events, the boom it will have for venues (after parade), will politics change at all….of course with any kind of change there is teething issues, but I’m interested to see what transpires.
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
The parade party split is going to be a REAL pain for those of us inter-staters. Is there a need to drag the MG out? It serves its purpose over one weekend well enough.
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:07 pm
For various reasons – age being one of them – I gave up on both the party and the parade some time ago. The arts festival, however, is a different matter. It’s a shame it’s being reduced to only two weeks. Looks like NMG is catering largely to the young party set. Don’t worry about anyone else – those of us who feel excluded because we’re neither young enough nor ‘beautiful’ enough will go just have to make do with a truncated arts festival.
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:08 pm
Refreshing the formula might be interesting.
Many of my friends are interested in being involved in the parade again. They do not have to make a choice between being exhausted before the party by being in the Parade and getting value out of their party ticket outlay (a not inconsiderable amount these days.
There was a notable lack of buzz in the week prior to the parade. So it will be fun to see what happens in 2010.
As for hoping it will save Habour Party, don’t know. A few changes there might be worthwhile. How much did it make this year??
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:12 pm
I don’t think this change in itself is necessarily a bad one. The Mardi Gras board have essentially turned one party into two, and let’s face it, without the official after party, it’s not like we’re all going to go home to bed once the march is finished – we’ll divide up into the different bars and clubs of Oxford st, giving a boost to the whole strip.
What is a problem, though, (and this is obvious from everyones comments) is the lack of consultation. It suggests an arrogance and a contempt for the community that I think many people will struggle to get over.
May 26th, 2009 @ 12:12 pm
WTF?! Over two weekends? That will require twice as many braincells! I’ve only got 3 left!
May 26th, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
I don’t believe it when people say ‘This may be the last Mardi Gras’… AS IF!
It is such a huge cash cow- it just needs to be better managed. And that is what they are trying to do.
May 26th, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
Martin if MG parade was non community, then why does is it filled with floats that are from community organisations?
All you people who claim that its a good thing will just simply arrive on the night of the party and winge and carry on, on how dead it is – I know youre type.
May 26th, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Warren, are you serious?
Are you really saying it’s up to every member of New Mardi Gras to personally telephone the Chair to find out their reasoning behind this decision?
Perhaps you’d like to post his phone number here so we can all call up and talk to him ‘at length’? I’m sure he’d love that.
Surely a members forum would be better so it can be explained to everyone ‘at length’ at the same time?
Editor’s Note: David Imrie has agreed for SSO to publish his email address for those wanting to offer their opinions direct. It is David.Imrie@mardigras.org.au.
May 26th, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
It seems you have to be a millionaire to enjoy the Benefits of being Gay.
May 26th, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
I think mardi gras should have had a grandfathering clause so existing community members can still have our official party on parade night. We’ve lived our whole gay lives having only one night a year to claim as our own, it would be unfair to expect us to celebrate twice a year now.
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
Well If Mardi Gras wanted comment, here it is … they really needn’t have gone any further than SSO …. fairly clear which paper people read in this town from this reaction ..
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:10 pm
I am not really sure what to think about this …. I guess we will have to wait and see if it works
Am sure if it doesn’t Mardi Gras will change it again
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
wonder how much of this decision has been influenced by the government funding?
first it was Homebush – now this … were we getting softened up?
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:14 pm
I certainly intend on telling David Imrie exactly what I think about this decision – with my vote at the AGM.
Bugger the emails … no point in having a say after the horse is bolted.
I’d encourage all NMG members to do the same.
First Glamstand, then Homebush, now this.
Shame shame shame
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:18 pm
Come on people – give it a go and see how it works …
You just never know, it may be the best decision MG has ever made!
May 26th, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
I LOVE Mardi Gras. I love everything about it. The party, the parade, the whole festival, fair day, harbour party, the film festival, comedy nights, gala events, plays and visual arts. I even did a car rally one year. I’m a 45 year old dyke. I haven’t missed a parade or party for 24 years. I usually leave the party at 8am. I don’t get tired despite watching or participating in the parade before the party. I genuinely think the various boards over the years have done a great job that is largely thankless. I thought last year’s parade and party was one of the best and I had an amazing time.
This is a very radical decision they have made. I am exceptionally disappointed at the parade and party being split. Nothing can replicate the high of going to one of the world’s great partys after the parade. The pride, love and sense of family and friendship is unique and something I don’t want to lose by going to a club I can visit any night of the week, after the parade. NMG are now suggesting a members party after the parade. Err, we already have a pretty good party after the parade that I personally quite liked.
Apart from the parade party split, which seriously affects Sydney visitors, is the now two week festival, which affects sydney-siders more. Kicking off with Fair day (on a sunday) effectively gives the whole festival just two Fridays and Saturdays to fit in everything with the parade on one saturday and the party on the other and harbour party on the other Sunday. Where does Tongue Twister go? The bitch night? Where do all the bears events go? When is the Great Debate? How do you fit the film festival in? Pool party long gone? Any chance of getting to any visual arts events on either weekend? What about plays? How about divas like Joan Rivers et al, when do we see them? How does anyone have any time to practice their parade routines with all this stuff on? Even if we all have the time and the money to go out every single night of the festival, I really can’t see how we fit it all in. And who has the time or the money to do it all? I don’t mind taking the odd day off for Mardi Gras but I can’t take two weeks off.
Then there’s the personal matter of having just two weeks ago booked non-transferable, non-refundable flights for a recovery holiday in Byron after carefully consulting the NMG website to check the date of the parade, assuming the party would be on the same night, as it has been for the last 30 years. I feel very much for the Atlantis cruise people and other international visitors that books fares in advance based on advertised dates for the parade. A decision such as splitting the party and parade should have been made for the 2011 season and with plenty of warning and consultation, not for 2010.
I can’t say I’m happy with any of this and think it is a very rash decision that isn’t going to work. From the comments here, the majority of people are not happy. I think this is a very irresponsible decision and I don’t know a soul who was consulted at any stage. I am a NMG member and all I can remember is completing a survey about DJs and internationl acts. Why on earth would they look to events such as New Orleans and Rio for guidance. They are VERY different beasts. I’ve no idea why people keep saying Mardi Gras is unsuccessful and needs to change. It seems every event I go to (and I go to a lot) is packed out and fabulous. (Maybe except Harbour Party but until you can control the weather and the police, it will always be problematic). This is one unhappy member.
May 26th, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
I received credible information some 6 weeks ago that this change was driven by an agreement with the Atlantis people which obliged NMG to move the Parade to the last Saturday in February, while the standing booking for the RHI/Hordern is the first Saturday in March. Apparently an attempt was made by NMG to move the Party date to the Parade date but Playbill (who control the Showground/Fox venues) rejected it on the basis that the venue was booked for the Gift Fair. In other words, the separated dates were the result of a combination of an undisclosed commercial obligation and a plain and simple oversight. Any suggestion that it is by design is an ex post facto attempt to cover up.
May 27th, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
I have been involved with Mardi Gras both as a volunteer and more recently a member for many years. I was there when the organisation went bust last time. Furthermore I helped by volunteering and raising it from the ashes again.
As a member, decisions of this calibre really need to be voted on at an AGM or extraordinary meeting before being announced to the public!
The latest member email from NMG states that the board are asking for our feedback on what should happen post parade rather than overturning this decision or calling for a vote. This is negligent behaviour and fails to understand major gravity of the situation.
When Mardi Gras did go bankrupt last time there were many paid employee positions therefore creating a form of hierarchal management within our community organisation.
It seems that this is happening again.
After viewing the NMG website recruiting for a Head of Events, Head of Marketing & Publicity and Festival Coordinator is occurring. I can’t help but think that these positions will only lead to a further flow on of other paid jobs within the organisation therefore further increasing its commercialisation.
Further to this New Mardi Gras have announced big bold plans that they are moving to a new office in Oxford Street whereas I believe the current property in Petersham is sufficient if some minor renovations occurred. The questions remains and prime concern being is there enough money for all of this if the party, one of their biggest fundraising events fails due to this decision?
It was not so long ago that the Gay Games in Sydney which had a similar event structure lost many millions of dollars due to mismanagement. These recent financial events of the former Mardi Gras and Sydney Gay Games cannot simply be ignored. More importantly our world is experiencing an economic downturn therefore in these tough economic times the decision to increase spending and risk is questionable.
Further negligent behaviour is the previously advertised dates of Mardi Gras 2010 having been published on their website for quite some time now!
There is a way to change this and it’s not too late for the NMG board to change their decision.
Further to this as members we have voting rights and can change the decision ourselves at the 2009 AGM! There are several ways that this can occur, one being an agenda item or another as voting for a new board however there would need to be a sufficient amount of nominations for these positions when announced. As members we need to jam pack the AGM this year, not unlike those similar times that happened under the Koala Oxford Hotel in the 90’s.
Come on Members, this year is the time to show up and vote!!!
May 30th, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
OMG! Maybe just maybe…. an ‘alternative’ style ‘after party’ could evolve after the parade…. perhaps then those members of the gay community who aren’t pill popping and powdering their noses in copious amounts of illicit drugs… might have to mingle and interact with the rest of us in a more responsible way!
God forbid the Gay Community in Sydney and Australia at large deceides to ditch the drugs and clean up its act?!!
A change is as a good as a rest….
I would hope this would promote smaller more intimate after parties around the whole of the Oxford Street/Newtown and Sydney Areas.