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	<title>Comments on: Stop&#8230;Obama time</title>
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	<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583</link>
	<description>Australia&#039;s leading gay and lesbian news source</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew M. Potts</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-9084</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew M. Potts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes Shiraz, or we could look to South Africa, or Canada, or Holland, or Belgium, or Norway, or Spain- all of which have full marriage equality.

Personally I think civil unions should replace de facto for both gay and heterosexual couples, with de facto only assumed where couples have children but haven&#039;t bothered to register their relationships.

But the issue of equality for same sex couples doesn&#039;t go away until we have marriage rights. 

Forcing different groups of people to eat at different restaurants or drink from separate water fountains is still wrong even if it&#039;s the same water or the food is just as good. 

The same goes for our social institutions. If we stop at civil unions all we&#039;ll have achieved is marking ourselves out as separate from the rest of human society for the rest of history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Shiraz, or we could look to South Africa, or Canada, or Holland, or Belgium, or Norway, or Spain- all of which have full marriage equality.</p>
<p>Personally I think civil unions should replace de facto for both gay and heterosexual couples, with de facto only assumed where couples have children but haven&#8217;t bothered to register their relationships.</p>
<p>But the issue of equality for same sex couples doesn&#8217;t go away until we have marriage rights. </p>
<p>Forcing different groups of people to eat at different restaurants or drink from separate water fountains is still wrong even if it&#8217;s the same water or the food is just as good. </p>
<p>The same goes for our social institutions. If we stop at civil unions all we&#8217;ll have achieved is marking ourselves out as separate from the rest of human society for the rest of history.</p>
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		<title>By: Shiraz</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-9068</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiraz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starobserver.com.au/?p=2583#comment-9068</guid>
		<description>Okay so 7 out of the 50 United States have some form of recognition - whereas ALL Australian states recognise same-sex couples, and the argument has shifted from legal and financial equality to the formality of recognition - Registered Partnerships, Marriage or Civil Unions. Having read the column in SSO by the American lawyer on the parlous state of gay and lesbian rights movement in the United States, I don&#039;t see why we should draw any inspiration from them. Better off looking towards the UK or even (gasp) across the ditch to New Zealand, countries that both have civil unions (and that ex Prime Minister with Lesbian hair)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay so 7 out of the 50 United States have some form of recognition &#8211; whereas ALL Australian states recognise same-sex couples, and the argument has shifted from legal and financial equality to the formality of recognition &#8211; Registered Partnerships, Marriage or Civil Unions. Having read the column in SSO by the American lawyer on the parlous state of gay and lesbian rights movement in the United States, I don&#8217;t see why we should draw any inspiration from them. Better off looking towards the UK or even (gasp) across the ditch to New Zealand, countries that both have civil unions (and that ex Prime Minister with Lesbian hair)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew M. Potts</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-8990</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew M. Potts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starobserver.com.au/?p=2583#comment-8990</guid>
		<description>Shiraz- in addition to Vermont and New Hampshire, Maine, New Jersey, Oregon, Hawaii, the state of Washington and the District of Columbia also recognise same sex couples with civil unions or other forms of civil partnerships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shiraz- in addition to Vermont and New Hampshire, Maine, New Jersey, Oregon, Hawaii, the state of Washington and the District of Columbia also recognise same sex couples with civil unions or other forms of civil partnerships.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew M. Potts</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-8986</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew M. Potts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Shiraz, unfortunately you didn&#039;t read it right. 

The only state to have existing same sex marriage laws overturned through a ballot initiative is California. This initiative may itself be overturned by the California Supreme Court in the weeks to come and in the meantime, gay and lesbian couples in the state are still protected through domestic partnerships. 

Florida and Arizona did not have same sex marriage laws, the bans there were preemptive- like the ban passed by the major parties federally here. These bans can also be reversed through court action or by lawmakers or through another ballot initiative.

Same sex marriage is still legal in Connecticut and Massachusetts and in Rhode Island out of state same sex marriages are recognised, with in-state marriages soon to follow.

Throughout the history of the United States, civil rights battles have been won through the courts and not through popular votes. The recent ballot initiative in California is a glaring exception, not the rule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Shiraz, unfortunately you didn&#8217;t read it right. </p>
<p>The only state to have existing same sex marriage laws overturned through a ballot initiative is California. This initiative may itself be overturned by the California Supreme Court in the weeks to come and in the meantime, gay and lesbian couples in the state are still protected through domestic partnerships. </p>
<p>Florida and Arizona did not have same sex marriage laws, the bans there were preemptive- like the ban passed by the major parties federally here. These bans can also be reversed through court action or by lawmakers or through another ballot initiative.</p>
<p>Same sex marriage is still legal in Connecticut and Massachusetts and in Rhode Island out of state same sex marriages are recognised, with in-state marriages soon to follow.</p>
<p>Throughout the history of the United States, civil rights battles have been won through the courts and not through popular votes. The recent ballot initiative in California is a glaring exception, not the rule.</p>
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		<title>By: Shiraz</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-8985</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiraz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.starobserver.com.au/?p=2583#comment-8985</guid>
		<description>From the New York Times November 12:

&quot;Massachusetts and Connecticut are now the only states allowing same-sex marriage. Vermont and New Hampshire also have civil unions. And California has domestic partnerships that provide many similar rights and privileges.&quot;

Please Andrew, we don&#039;t need any more of these &quot;victories&quot;.

All Australian states and now the Commonwealth recognise same-sex partnerships in a similar manner to de facto, and many states now have partnership registers. We are well ahead of the United States.

(I say roll on civil unions!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the New York Times November 12:</p>
<p>&#8220;Massachusetts and Connecticut are now the only states allowing same-sex marriage. Vermont and New Hampshire also have civil unions. And California has domestic partnerships that provide many similar rights and privileges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please Andrew, we don&#8217;t need any more of these &#8220;victories&#8221;.</p>
<p>All Australian states and now the Commonwealth recognise same-sex partnerships in a similar manner to de facto, and many states now have partnership registers. We are well ahead of the United States.</p>
<p>(I say roll on civil unions!)</p>
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		<title>By: Shiraz</title>
		<link>http://www.starobserver.com.au/soap-box/2008/11/12/stopobama-time/2583/comment-page-1#comment-8970</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiraz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If I read this right, except for one state, popular votes have overturned court sanctioned same-sex laws in every state, the latest being California.

Far from spreading across America, wherever it appears, same-sex marriage is overturned by voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I read this right, except for one state, popular votes have overturned court sanctioned same-sex laws in every state, the latest being California.</p>
<p>Far from spreading across America, wherever it appears, same-sex marriage is overturned by voters.</p>
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