Christian Brethren challenged

Christian Brethren challenged

An anti-discrimination case set to challenge the rights of religious groups to discriminate against gay and lesbian people will be heard in the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal this week.

The WayOut Project rural youth group lodged a case against the Christian Brethren, owners of Phillip Island Adventure Resort, two years ago after being refused use of the resort camping facilities.

The case is set to start on July 7 and is expected to run for around 15 days.

WayOut claims the Christian Brethren resort owners discriminated against them because of their sexuality when they refused to accept a booking for their camp in June 2007.

The camp was a suicide prevention initiative for same-sex attracted youth from rural areas who may have experienced homophobic harassment in their home towns.

In 2008 Christian Youth Camps general manager Glyn Mahon told The Sunday Age the resort had refused the group use of the facilities because their Christian faith meant they did not support the “promotion of homosexuality”.

Victorian Parliament passed the Equal Opportunity Bill in April this year which narrowed some provisions in which religious groups and organisations could discriminate on religious grounds, however, sexuality and marital status were not included.

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23 responses to “Christian Brethren challenged”

  1. Ian- You talk of gays. You talk of the gay community. What about all the majestic colours of the rainbow that you and I are a part of. We are all people first. You do not understand that. You still do not understand that.

    The world you put forward is businesses can discriminate and should against people who have a different skin colour, a different hair colour, those with the name Ian. You fail to make a rational case. You fail to talk of the only pharmacy in a country town. You fail to talk of the only GP clinic in a country town.

    Perhaps they should discriminate against Ians, if that is the value system they have. Perhaps you should die on the street if your perfect world were to go ahead. Who would stand up for the Ian’s? Who should? Businesses have a right to discriminate against you, who is the moral authority on Ians? This is a closely watched test case with massive consequences.

    If they were a cult who hated the Ians, then I guess that is justified for them. But I would stand up for the Ians. Many would.

    This is not a story of Ian going to a Church that did not like Ians. This is a story of a resort that did not want Ians, but wanted all the financial benefits of running a business. If they are able to get away with discriminating against Ians, then we have to look at the GP clinics or the hospitals and how they could legally discriminate against Ians and stop them. Change the law so Ians do not die on the street. To protect Ians.

    It is a sad world you seek Ian. Gladly it is not a world many others want.

  2. Dearest Dave stupid I am not. Have you considered your agenda? Is it about the rights of gays or your latest indication, it’s about business, a corporate value system. A dilemma for the law, who’s value system wins? A dilemma for debate when one conveniently jumps from one value system to the other with the intent to ‘intelligently’ win debate, without acknowledging how we embrace all values systems to find a balance which in turn reflects respect thus cohesion.

    Your moral high ground? Now that’s an interesting debate. Where does the terms and conditions of morality come from, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or perhaps the modern state? Your argument ‘it’s a business’ presumably the modern state. Is your convenient positioning on arguing ‘it’s a business’ more a reflection of corporate law and it’s value system can win this or an acknowledgment that the gay community cannot win the moral high ground? Yes you need the help from the equal opportunities commission as God and Gods haven’t been outlawed ‘yet’.

    My point exactly, the equal opportunities act it not so equal or moral when used in the corporate context to further the causes and values of gays and feminists against the values systems of others.

  3. Ian- What a sad stupid person you are.

    The facts are if you operate a business, then expect people to take you to court if you discriminate. It is a business. What part of that do you not understand. It is not a Church. It is a business owned by a Christian Sect.

    Under what you say if in a country town the only GP clinic is owned by a cult, then people who are gay or lesbian should not get any medical attention. You do not seem to understand what a business is. If you want to understand what the case is about, then look up what a business is. This is not a Church, not a cult, it is a business.

    Like I said, we win either way. This case has the attention of many.

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2947411.htm

  4. Dave you sad boy, I’m not a christian and share much of the skepticism that religious groups have in fact any humanity. I have learned that humanity and it’s practices invariably are driven by ones own agenda and that is seldom so puristic as all claim. What I do believe in is the balance of our value systems, through that process we function as a community. The difficulty is where the value systems of the gay community clash with those of the christian community. If the gay community had any respect for the christian values of this particular sect it would never have applied. Get a grip precious, the world is a harsh place and everyone has their story, all hold on to their beliefs to keep them sane. You hold on to yours but be respectful of others values as you demand others respect yours. Time for the gay community to get over themselves and enjoy the freedoms and acceptance they have.

  5. It looks like the vile Christian Cults who have written in here were not successful in their campaign of hate and lies. We clearly have not been converted to that deceit, to that Evil. We see the hate and Evil they stand for, and the misery they seek to bestow onto others. We see them for who they really are. Evil.

  6. Laurie McIntosh when you next leave your tiny church in Dubbo you should talk to the Reverends that marched in Mardi Gras. I have read you studied the one year masters in theology at the Moore College. I am sure you will have much to learn from people who have studied a lot more.

  7. Laurie McIntosh I hope you give thought that Jesus might consider you Evil and a disgust to good people everywhere. I think he will see a complete lack of education and morality in a perverted version of Christianity that he never wanted. He loved gay people just the way they are, gay. http://www.whywouldwe.net

    Jesus might consider in the Evil world you make, Buddhist are going to Hell, Jewish people are going Hell, and Muslims are going to Hell. Even good Christians are going to Hell. All you offer is conflict and inhumanity. Not tolerance. Not love. You use the name of Jesus for this Evil. I hope you consider you are not educated enough to know the Bible, and not educated enough to know the true scriptures or the language the gospel were written in. The many people I know who do tells us all Jesus loved Gay and lesbian people just the way they are. I hope you know God hated hypocrites, especially those that tried to get money by hating others running cults.

    I am sure the 101 educated reverends marching at Mardi Gras would be disgusted at your Evil, some are Catholic Priest, some Nuns, some Uniting Church Clergy, and some Anglican Clergy.

  8. This act of discrimination is basically the same as having a business with a sign out the front saying “Blacks and Jews not welcome”. I’d like to see how far this Brethren cult would get if they turned down a Jewish group because they didn’t wish to promote the “Jewish lifestyle”.

    As for Laurie McIntosh’s tosh, it’s the ideology of self-righteous religious fanatics that’s responsible for death and destruction all over the world. The deviant lifestyle of the Brethren cult is one part of that equation.

    Like Anthony Venn-Brown, I’m also amazed at the hypocrisy of the Brethren. They don’t allow their members to vote but are happy to use the law only when it suits them. And they’d whinge about discrimination if gay businesses refused their custom.

  9. I wonder if the campsite operators check the marriage licences of every heterosexual couple to see if they are living in sin…….or the run around the campsite at nights with a torch to make sure no young people are fornicating……if they dont…then the rejection of the gay community group has nothing to do with beliefs but everything to do with hypocrisy.

  10. Ian, Laurie McIntosh, Exenon

    So if I owned a camping ground and you contacted me to book and I said “sorry I don’t accept the promotion of the Brethren religion” would you be happy? Have you also actually considered that perhapes Wayout did not realise the camp ground was owned by the exclusive brethren?

    Also on the Phillip Island Adventure Resort website, It states: “If you run camps for children or youth, but don’t have a campsite to call home, we’d be excited to partner with you in making Phillip Island Adventure Resort an annual location on your camping calendar” Here’s a link to the website: http://cyc.org.au/piar/special_interest/

  11. Thank you Editor.

    Yes I am emotional on this issue. I have seen the great damage the Brethren have done. I have contacted Wayout and made the services of my partner and myself readily available. But either way this case runs, we win. You see the Brethren do not realise that should they win the case, they will loose the battle to discriminate. Law reform will follow. Part of that will be the removal of Tax exemptions the Brethren enjoy. Part of it will be the removal of discrimination against us when doing businesses.

    Some here are trying to confuse their church, and a commercial organization. They are so desperate about this. They are saying all kinds of things. In addition with regard to this case they are trying to attack the good work Wayout does, wheeling out a paediatrician from the Royal Children’s Hospital to attack the programs Wayout does. I am not sure why they think it is there business. But there you go. Looks like they are trying anything and everything no matter how immoral it is.

    They are saying as I have said if we run the local petrol station, gays can fuck off. If we run the only GP clinic in town, gays can fuck off, if we run the only pharmacy in town, gays can fuck off. They will decide who they do business with on the basis of the sexuality of the customer.

    I think they are great Evil, but I do defend the right to worship Santa if they wish. To worship the Sun if wish. But a commercial organization is very different. We cannot have Coles saying you cannot buy WheatBix or doing gender test. What a slippery road we are on.

    They say we are hateful. We are not on a GLTBQI website trying to have fun with the vilification of kids who are gay. Does that really make them happy? Is it something you could tell your mother about.

    I mean only 40,000 members, less excluding New Zealand. Midsummer has over a 100,000. I think this frige group is seeking much more rights then others.

    101 Reverends marched in Mardi Gras. They marched because they wanted to show enough was enough as far as Christian Hate goes. They wanted to show others Jesus loved people who are gay and lesbian just the way they are. You cannot use the Bible to justify your hate, you cannot use vile Evil to attack gay youth groups, you cannot hide behind anything. They are worried because they have been caught out. Because the world knows a dirty little secret. It is out of the closet now. For all to see.

    Change will follow whatever the outcome of the case, as we will win.

  12. Obviously Dave is too emotionally upset to discuss this issue rationally, and it is sad that, with his vulgarity and hatred, he thinks he speaks from the ‘higher ground’.
    The specific instance of the Brethren Camp will be settled in the courts – as, in fact, the moral value of homosexuality will be settled at the final court when each of us will be called to give an account of him (or her) self before God.
    Exenon (I take it not a follower of Jesus) expresses clearly the logic of the whole ‘gay’ lobby. But even so, I do hope that they went ahead at another more congenial camp site with the good thing they were doing for homosexual youth at risk of suicide. And I also hope that among the homosexual leadership there are some who give serious thought to the possibility that their deviant lifestyle in itself is one of the causes of their death wish.

    Editor’s Note:
    Seems the religious lobby is getting their members to comment on this story in droves ….

  13. I beleive there is a difference between organisations not wanting to serve other organisations with opposite values and serving individuals whose values we may or may not know.Yes, Jesus associated with all individuals but he did stand up for God when he drove the money changers out of the temple and some, like the rich youg ruler went away sad because they could not accept what Jesus said.I’m sure Christain Brethren also serve all individuals irrespective of their beliefs as they are mainsream Christains unlike Exclusive Brethen. So can we keep the discussion to ideas rather than getting personal.

  14. I would like to add Gay and Lesbian people treat Brethen in hospitals all the time. My partner does not stop and do nothing. He treats people no matter who they are or what they have done. We have so much more humanity.

    In the world you are proposing that would not happen. Brethren would not have to treat people who are sick.

    Get real.

  15. “those who choose to live on the fringes of mainstream”

    Well over 400,000 people attend Mardi Gras on a good year and the Brethren struggle with just 40,000 members, less excluding New Zealand.

    Let’s face it go Wikipedia yourself. You are on the fringes of society, you are the ones was called a cult by the Prime Minister.

    Go Wikipedia yourself Brethren. What next? Gays cannot eat WheatBix. Where your dream of hateful Australia end. My partner is a Medical Doctor and does not think oh I will treat a Brethren in Emergency. He has more humanity then that. We have more humanity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Brethren

  16. Ian before you jump in front of that train. Go listen to yourself. Tell you fellow Brethren you go to gay websites and get your rocks off picking on those that have been discriminated against. Against youth. It is no wonder so many kill themsleves when they have to put up with homophobic wankers like you. Tell your mum what Evil Hate you did not today. Oh how proud you must be of yourself.

  17. Exenon pretends he knows biblical scripture. Go to http://www.whywouldwe.net Jesus loved people who were from our community just the way they are. Please do not pretend to quote the bible back to us either. Child sex is also ok in the Bible depending what parts you read. You can use it justify any hate position you have.

    If the Brethren run the only local GP clinic in a country town, then it is ok for Same-Sex attracted youth to die. Well why is that exactly? Because we are snubbing them? Their values? What if they ran the only pharmacy, it is difficult enough dealing with Catholic Pharmacy’s that usually do not even give the pill out to girls, but the Brethren would just not give us life saving drugs. Why, because of our sexuality. Go lie under a bus if you think that logic is justified. Better still jump in front of a train. Do it while the train is going slowly as not to disrupt the passengers. I am not the only person who thinks you should do this. Stupid Bastards come here, here on forum to lecture us on values. Well go fuck yourself Sunshine. Guess what, you have no values. Just your Evil. You hate, you vile disgust.

    When the Brethren decide to run a commercial business for profit, to the public, it is just that, to the all the public.

    The stupidity of some, especially the Brethren that come to this forum to lecture us is amazing.

  18. I might add what happens if the Brethren buys the only hospital in town, or the only Gas Station? You are telling me they should be able to discriminate? Utter stupidity.

  19. This is just stupid. A commercial operation that discriminated, nothing more and nothing less. It happens to be owned by the Brethren.

    Go to a Brethren Chuch and they turn you away, understandable, but use the services of a commercial business and you should not expect to be disciminated against.

  20. Should this article be titled ‘Gay community snub Christian values’. Lets face it, there are dozens of camp sites available. So why yet again do we see the gay community snubbing it’s nose and challenging other peoples values. It would appear to me these characters are demanding the broader community protect their rights but with no regard what so ever for the rights and values of others. So yet again we see the equal opportunities act used as it was intended, to provide rights to those who choose to live on the fringes of mainstream, giving them far greater rights than others.

  21. I strongly disagree with the tenents of the Christian Bretheren. However they have every right to exclude any groupe or orginization that is fundamentaly opposed to their beliefs or is, as the homosexual lobby stands, atipathetic to their adherance to biblical scripture. It is no coincidence that this cabal of “activists” have taken this action. They were well aware that there would be a hostile reaction to this application but went ahead to engage in vexatious litigation to confirm their sexual identity at public expense.

  22. Anti-discrimination statutes all work the same way in this respect: if you offer a job, acommodation, good or service to the general public, you must accept that the general public is entitled to do business with you, without discrimination. Christian Brethren could have avoided this problem by confining their offers to (acceptable) religious organizations (presumably there are other ‘lifestyles’ they also don’t wish to ‘promote’, such as unmarried couples, divorce, remarriage, other faiths). In any case, they have done the rest of us the service of demonstrating that “christian” organizations seldom are.