Rudd protest this Thursday
Older Concerned Lesbians (OCL) will hold a silent demonstration outside the Queen Victoria Building on Thursday, April 16 to protest changes to Centrelink payments in light of the same-sex legislation reforms.
Protesters will be encouraged to don black clothing and armbands adorned with pink triangles to draw attention to the concerns of older members of the gay and lesbian community that the changes will unfairly disadvantage them.
This legislation comes much too late for many of us to benefit, given the discrimination people like me have experienced throughout our adult lives, OCL organiser Pearlie McNeal, 70, said.
I don’t think the legislation is not necessary or we shouldn’t have had it. I just think a grandfather clause for the number of people involved would have been a kind act.
I realise there are winners and losers and I try to look at the benefits, but what we mostly want to do is inform our community.
Although the protest will be a silent one-hour vigil, OCL have produced fliers to provide further information on people’s rights in relation to legislation changes.
I think there are many lesbians and gay men who haven’t got a clue what’s going to land on them, McNeal said.
So really we’re not thinking that we’re going to change anything but perhaps we can alert the public more because I don’t think there’s been sufficient information. I think the toothbrush advertisement is pretty short on text.
We don’t think we’re going to necessarily change the government’s mind -” I think I gave up thinking that as soon as I got a letter from [Community Services Minister] Jenny Macklin -” but you know, you’ve got to go ahead on two paths.
You know you’re not going to get anywhere but you’ve also got to hold out hope for as long as you can.
info: The demonstration against Centrelink changes will be held on April 16, at the statue outside the Queen Victoria Building, from 12.20pm.
Gary – I may be a rambling old fart, I have read and re-read my previous post… (I have a legal background) for the life of me I cannot see where or how I have “attacked your integrity” – Please enlighten me. Your reponse is personal and nasty….calm down! – Young man you frighten me … I do see how paranoia could set in – You have been given a Type-Lashing by quite a few respondents. I have to ask if you work for Centrelink? – Hope your integrity is fighting back. love Alex
Some of us never wanted to get married (the legal form) even when I was living in a heterosexual way I always wrote single and paid my own way. I think it is discriminatory to treat anyone who lives together no matter how they live as “married” if they have not signed up for it. I raised two children without any help, there was no single mothers pension until 1972! I worked all my life from age 16. Paid my own way throught uni while working, etc etc. Like so many of my generation gave hours to voluntary work to improve the lot of lesbians and women in general. I think we should all be working to end the law that says if you live together you are “married”. This will solve all the arguments about equality with straights. The original defacto law was brought in partly to protect women who were exploited by men who lived with them, benefited from their support then left them with nothing. It was not really intedded to add to to the government coffers at the expense of older people on pensions living together, regardless of sexual preference.
What is sad about this debate is the conservatism of some gay men.
Sylvia
Shayne- “the inequity of a patriarchal hetero system is applied to them”
FYI- people in ethnic groups that were (and in some cases still are) matriarchal societies got married as well.
Cripes, what an incredibly complicated question.
Mannie, I think you need to get past the toothbrush jokes, seeing that 11,000 lives are at stake here.
Gary, you might like to consider that all things would be equal if we were playing on a level playing field, but we’re not. Someone else used the analogy of a rising tide lifting all boats at the same rate, which would be fine if some of those boats weren’t chained to the ground. There’s a fine fine line between -œspecial treatment and substantive equality. The change to the pensionable age for women from 60 to 65 was phased in over 20 years. Why aren’t we entitled to the same consideration?
I suppose its a difficult concept, that in order to address historic inequalities we allow certain groups special treatment. But the result is genuine equality. See “affirmative Action’ or ‘Positive Discrimination.’
With respect, the simplistic views of ‘equal treatment’ for all result in inequality. Making the disadvantaged pay for other’s lack of vision is not my idea of equality. And it’s NOT about grandfathering, it’s about precedent.
Andrew might like to consider the inevitability of inequity for glbqti when the inequity of a patriarchal hetero system is applied to them.
….and acon should just stick to their better fucking and anal hygiene workshops.
Anyway, I doubt that anything will come of the ‘lobby’ if it still exists, and I suggest we all go fuck each other ad absurdum and let Centrelink try and work out who’s in a relationship with whom then. Hell, I had three LTR’s just yesterday, luckily I’m not on the dole.
Alex it is clear by your rambling you know all about my private circumstances ?
You seemed to have formed an opinion without knowing me or my struggles in life or how I have been discriminated against.
I am 53 and have travelled down life’s track experiencing discrimination,vilification and violence.
And yes I was sacked once from a job for being unable to produce a girlfriend.
So as you stand on your wooden box attacking my integrity without knowing me I suggest caution because you may slip off and fall flat on your face.
The homosexuality community has had nearly two years to accustom itself to the governments Centrelink July 1 changes regarding same-sex couple pensions.
Would you like another 10 years ?
Right from the start the Rudd government planned on removing discrimination for us, even before they were elected, in the Rudd Labor party platform they promised to remove discrimination and they have sucessfully done this. I can understand for some couples this seems like they are getting nothing in return from the reforms, and yes depending on your circumstances you will get next to nothing, but for for the likes a young lesbian couple with children this reform is great, people seem to forget that some couples are going to benefit from the reform. I believe it was obvious that sooner of later this was going to happen and centrelink would treat same-sex couples as couples and not singles. The chances of the govenment removing discrimination while letting us recieve to single pensions was not going to happen, this is the price of equality and yes some wont benefit but thats just how the cookie crumbles. I suggest people check out the reform if not already done so, weblink: http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/Humanrightsandanti-discrimination_SameSexReform
Sorry, I was unclear, by “they are the ones who will be paying for…” I of course refer to those on welfare.
In Australia and New Zealand, Andrew, de facto is the term for one’s domestic partner. In Australian law, it is the legally recognised relationship of a couple living together. This is equivalent to common-law marriage, which is used in most other English-speaking countries. That is why I placed ‘marriage’ in quote marks. Previously, same-sex couples were not considered in this way, and whatever term you choose to use for their new legal status, they are the ones who will be paying for the advantages others gain from that new recognition. Thanks again for your helpful input.
If you want to know what queer toothbrushes are up to, just have a look at our web pages through the link from our name at the top of this posting and you will see what is going on!
TOOTHBRUSHES BEHAVING BADLY!
AH! – BUT ARE THEY GAY OR ARE THEY STRAIGHT? – THAT IS THE QUESTION!
see: http://home.zipworld.com.au/~josken/inters8.htm
The question is, who is doing what and to whom? and how are you able to tell the gay from the straight?
And the answer is: they must be gay – straights wouldn’t be enjoying their toothpaste as much as gays – see the bottom picture!
It is such a relief to “Hear so many voices of reason” – Gary, save as much of your income as possible, live frugally, invest wisely, Only buy “no frills” – Stay at home most of your life. – For goodness sake! – never, ever, get sick, old, disabled or fall in love. Has your boss ever asked you in front of all assembled at a staff meeting *Are you Queer Gary?” – (Mine did in 1968.) Have you ever been asked at a job interview “You state on your application that you are single, do you have a girlfriend?” – “If not, why not?” – Gary, Heterosexual defacto couples have “CHOICE” They can get married if they so CHOOSE. – Where is your equality? We are still being discriminated against, marginalised, ostracized. Smart move on the government’s behalf. It is also very disconcerting to know the Government will have a register of all Homosexuals on pensions, includng where we live and who we live with… clever huh? – My advice is: become wealthy in your younger working life. You will need financial independence when you can no longer work and support yourself… There are many frightening situations which could cause inability to work… Not just age and/or disability.
Wake up young man.
You lot embarrass me.
You all complain about being treated unequal.
When the government begins to treat you equally you still bloody complain.
I fully support the commonwealth government on it’s changes to law reform in recognition of same -sex couples.
It’s not perfect but neither are you and I for that matter.
Most of you on here are weak sniveling folk who don’t even have the courage to put your name to your incongruous rant when attacking my integrity.
Lets get one thing straight from the start the community spokespersons do not like me and I do not like them.
I am not speaking on the behalf of homosexuals.
Listen more closely next time.
I do not seek any of theirs or your support.
I do not care if any of them or you like me.
I work my own leather.
Not of you on here would spend 5 years of your life struggling between various courts and be given $10 k in damages and than give that money away to needy people in the community.
That’s where the weak and those with courage differ.
So when you one eyed folk on here attack my integrity remember you yourself do not have my courage.
The government is not going to back away from it’s July 1st commitment on homosexuality equality.
So even by me getting out of the way (as annonymous ranter cactus suggests) will not prevent this from happening.
Recently we had prominent people in our community trying to intimidate the police to prevent them from using drug dogs at homosexual dance party’s.
I noticed that back fired too.
Stop acting as if you’re all part of a group under persecution and work with the commonwealth government in a amicable manner to lure a little respectability.
Crikey! On one hand we have misogynism, ignorance, confusion & over-simplification while on the other common sense, careful examination of the real issues, awareness of social justice & equity. I’ll vote with the latter group, but feel compelled to make a few comments to assist a rethink by those who plump for the former.
Re notice: HA! What notice? The pollies are saying 15 months notice – what rot! Even Centrelink’s own newsletter “News for Seniors” sent to all Age Pensioners hasn’t broached the topic.
Then there’s the assumption that there *had* to be winners and losers to gain equality. Well first off, “equal treatment” before the law is NOT equality. Then there’s the ultra-narrow focus that to change legal provisions automatically makes for “equal treatment”. This presumes that lesbians & gays are suddenly made equal and denies the accumulated effects of all past disadvantages or thinks that they are suddenly disappeared or do not matter. It was never a level playing field when we were growing up, training or studying, entering the workforce, trying to deal with overt discrimination, subtle discrimination, gender oppression, forced invisibility, criminalisation, homophobic violence, heretosexism – shall I give you the full list? And it still isn’t a level playing field. Yes younger non-heterosexuals today can at least come out and enjoy support from LGBTI groups & sometimes the straight world, BUT discrimination, bashings, vilification, denials of our relationships, blocked career paths etc. continue.
Although the present government denies that all previous Centrelink changes were grandfathered, the fact remains that for the past 15 years (includes all the years of Howard the Horible govt.) *most* changes were & they were those which significantly impacted income support for disadvantaged clients. Grandfathering changes protects against negative results for those who are already in the system when the rules change. It’s about preventing unfairness.
There is a big difference between across the board or “on the face of it” justice and justice which addresses outcomes. The former is called formal justice & hardly worth the paper its written on – but gives the govt. a warm fuzzy. However substantive justice addresses the effects of past discriminations and disadvantages and looks to equality of outcomes; this is based on the special measures approach to working towards real justice.
Isn’t it time that gays & lesbians worked together for benefit of outcomes? We should not let the politicians, govt. departments & lazy thinking divide us. So you who are able – get yourselves down to the Sydney CBD for the next demo. For those away from Sydney – organise one in your city or outside your federal member’s office anyday soon. In case some of the younger readers remain sceptical just remember that it was through direct action that gay & lesbians rights got onto the mainstream agenda in the early 1970s & you now reap the rewards of those political actions.
Dear Gary, I think you may be experiencing a cognition problem. We are NOT complaining TO you, we are complaining ABOUT you. Get out of the way, you’re holding us back.
Gary Burns, get a life – that is a life on the pension for 15 years like I have and then I might take you seriously. I think you don’t have a clue about social justice, nor can you have a community bone in your body.
“I think we should remember that those who -˜gain to lose’ around $200 a fortnight never asked to be considered -˜married'”
Shayne, they’re not being considered ‘married’. They’re being considered the same as a heterosexual boyfriend and girlfriend who live together in the same dwelling. Quit using this as an excuse to take cheap shots at people who support marriage equality. These two issues have nothing to do with each other.
Beth Eldridge , I think the difficulty for many is that, “we want equality, that is the point” and yet not wanting “an outmoded heterosexist, male bread-winner, stay-at-home wife model,” sounds contradictory. My own view is that marriage is an anachronistic, mysogenistic token of the power base of the homophobic churches, whatever form it takes. And because marriage remains one of the last bastions of power the church has over the state (education is another) and because it will always be about the ability to reproduce, the church lobbies will never give up on their opposition to same sex relationships being acknowledged formally in that sense.
The lobby for grandfathering of changes will also fail because it will have been 15 months since the government
announced its intentions and the Attorney General McClelland has already said, “To isolate one aspect of the changes for grandfathering would result in inconsistencies n the recognition of a same-sex relationship in other social security and health programs.” I still think that the lobby is misguided in that it should be arguing that we, and our relationships, are not the same as hetero’s (thank gawd) for a number of reasons.
Having said all that, I would add that I am in full sympathy with your situation. Those that are so quick to dismiss your rights with the “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” argument forget that elderly glbqti built this community, the gay scene and all the rights we take for granted. We owe them a debt of gratitude, not apathy.
I’d also include all those welfare HIV+’s in relationships who are in real need, a third of whom already live in poverty, that will also suffer.
Rudd now has 45,000 more unemployed on welfare than predicted and a $3-billion blowout so I’m sure he’s seeing same-sex equal rights as a bit of a ‘Tampa’.
I think we should remember that those who -˜gain to lose’ around $200 a fortnight never asked to be considered ‘married’ – their relationships are real enough not to need sanctioning by the state, church or society, and they are now desperately trying to work out how to be UNmarried. For many, demanding the same treatment of opposite-sex and same-sex couples may seem fair at face value but it will not represent equity. It is disingenuous to claim that the reform Bill removes discrimination when the amendments relating to Social Security and Family Assistance will entrench poverty for 11,000 individuals whose access to benefits, super and insurance entitlements have already been significantly affected by the discriminatory laws that the rest of the Bill seeks to reform.
It is really dismaying again to read these hateful comments from misinformed “I’m all right Jack” gay men. This is an important issue for all older and disabled gay men,lesbians, and bisexuals as well. Anyone who Centrelink says is not hetero.
I am middle aged and disabled recovering from a life threatening cancer. One in two men in Aust, and one in three women will get cancer and may need to alter their abilitity to earn and be on a disability pension. These pensions are being cut considerably after July 1 if it can be proved that your partner has any income.The cuts will also affect people living with HIV in our community – or have you forgotten them?
Cancer, HIV and other illnesses and accidents happen and Gary, Oliver and Mike it might happen to you. I hope it doesn’t – but if you were in the situation you might understand more.
These changes are not fair but they are happening. The point of the demo and the protest against this being held across Australia is that people are asking for more time to put their finances in order or to plan.
Not much to ask really. Is it too much for you to understand, empathise and support your fellow same sex attracted folks in this situation?
Thanks Beth and Pearlie for some sanity. Sometimes Amazon acres beckons.
I would like to upload the picture of the queer toothbrushes here but tragically I cannot. At least we might all get a laugh, there’s not much to laugh about when those from the big end of gay town tell the rest of us to shut up and be happy with being discriminated against.
Joy FM are interviewing Hank from Centrelink again and they want questions so lets put our energy into that and not into those who have no desire to understand.
Great demo too, lesbians are definitely LOVERLY.
Gary, there is no point commenting on this stuff because you like many people cannot see beyond the end of your own nose. We can only believe from your comments that the people who will be hurt by this are dispensible to you and that they should shut up just like you do when you don’t lose out. The people being hurt here are old people and disabled people who don’t have the means to recover from changes they did not expect, while people like you tell them to shut up and stop complaining from the cosiness of their own advantage. Kindly get off the page, your comments are not helpful to anyone at all, they are diminishing. Listening, really listening is a viable alternative.
This is a very strange statement. What exactly is equality? In the Rudd Government’s case equality is “separate but equal” known as sexual apartheid, elder abuse and worse.
One either has equality or one doesn’t, and we don’t, no matter what changes there are to the legislation.
“If equality discriminates that’s the price to pay.”
No one would dream of complaining to someone who has no knowledge of activism, of ageing, of working all one’s life and been discriminated against, either for being homosexual, or a woman, or of colour, or of religion or of all of the above. Compassion and understanding would go a long way towards actual knowledge of situations which are far beyond anything that people who make statements like this would comprehend!
Mr Rudd may actually increase all pensions in the may budget for both same sex and opposite sex couples.
I support equality.
If equality discriminates that’s the price to pay.
No point in complaining to me about it.
Gary,
As much as the application of your umpires finger metaphorically or otherwise may put a smile on your face, you fail to understand that your definition of ‘community’ actively excludes all those whose philosophy differs from yours.
Please read this slowly, or ask a friend for assistance:
We are lesbians, not ‘characters’, we want equality, that is the point. This legislation has been introduced without a grandfather clause. Ageing, and planning for retirement takes a lifetime. Getting older, or becoming permanently disabled are not conditions which can be reversed. Lesbians living on a pension and entering into a relationship before this legislation was introduced, had predicated their futures based on financial independence. Many have mortgages, leases, health plans, and other financial commitments and contracts that were based on their fixed rate of income. They are faced now with deciding in the next 3 months between dissolving their relationships, their assets, or retreating into Narnia. They cannot get younger, or less disabled. The grandfather clause is the one mechanism that would have addressed the multi-sectional disadvantage experienced by these women over a lifetime. How you managed to interpret this as a desire to ape a heterosexist aspiration, or a white picket fence only reinforces my concern that you may need a friend to explain my response to you.
Olvier,
Again if you need help we can have someone read this to you that has had at least 60 additional years doing -˜a hard days work’, but for many, never received a hard days pay! And there’s the rub. Older lesbians, and even lesbians in their 40’s have seen a good many changes in government – enough to know that good intentions don’t necessarily make good policy. I refuse to be -œgrateful for a forced economic union which has been based on an outmoded heterosexist, male bread-winner, stay-at-home wife model, when I have had to worked, lived, loved and paid taxes as a single person. We work as individuals, I believe we should be entitled to financial support if required as individuals -“ one person-one payment. Remember, disability is one club that excepts new members every day -“ you yourself could join tomorrow!
To Andrew,
Refreshing sanity, thanks!
Mike,
Oh dear, are you registered to vote? As women we had to protest for that too. You can always Google -œrevolution, but if you need some support, ask your mum to show you where the local library is, then check out the history section.
It’s a bit much to read of the lack of understanding in our own community about these changes re Centrelink. I cannot benefit from my partner’s super and it’s much less than you might imagine anyway. I will be living on $212 per fortnight after 1st July, are you really going to tell those of us who have suffered disc rimination a very long time that this is equality? I wonder what you Mike or Gary would feel in this position but hey, you probably earn a decent wage, right? Pearlie
OLIVER AND GARY BURNS
I AM 70 YRS OLD AND DISABLED – I WORKED ALL MY LIFE AND PAID TAXES. GIVE ME A WELL DESERVED BREAK. – THE CENTRELINK TOOTHBRUSH ADVERT IS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE… WHY? BECAUSE I AM NOT THE SAME AS A DEFACTO HETEROSEXUAL COUPLE …. THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO GET MARRIED AND FORMALIZE THEIR RELATIONSHIP.. I AM JUST AN OLD, SICK HOMOSEXUAL CENTRELINK AND RUDD WANT TO TAKE AWAY A BIG PART OF MY PENSION BUT THEY ARE GIVING ME NOTHING IN RETURN.. NO, MY YOUNG FRIENDS I WAS NOT GIVEN EQUALITY THE TOOTHBRUSH ADVERT IS A LYING SHAM…. WAKE UP RUDD IS A PRACTICING CHRISTIAN AND WE ARE AN ABOMINATION IN HIS EYES. WE WILL NEVER BE GIVEN EQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY AND JUST FORGET ABOUT MARRIAGE EVER. ITS JUST NOT ON!
Oliver, I think you’ll find gay old age pensioners have done many a “fair day’s work”.
To me, this sounds like a very selfish protest. Centrelink hands out money like candy? Have you heard of a fair days work? People always Bag Kevin Rudd. Hes done more for the Gay Community than any other previous Prime Minister ever has.
This protest will achieve absolutely nothing.
These lesbians need to understand when the umpire puts up the finger it’s final,you walk from your crease.
I fully support the Rudd government’s changes to Centrelink payments for recipients of same-sex relationships and those of opposite sex relationships.
Our community can’t push for equality,and achieve that equality and continue to complain of unfairness.
Equality means exactly that,all Australians being treated equally.
Unlike most of you characters as a homosexual male I don’t want to copy a heterosexual lifestyle of existence.
I don’t want the white picket fence with red roses crawling up it !
What is a protest going to achieve eventually anyway?