Loading ...- Category:
- Community, News
- Author:
- Contributor
- Posted:
- Friday, 6 March 2009
Queer Arab group Beit el Hob will not march in Saturday’s Mardi Gras parade.
Official suggestions for parade participants, under the theme Nations United, included dressing up as the national flag or other iconic imagery of countries they closely identify with, which Beit el Hob spokesman Nassim Arrage feared would be harmful to many from areas of conflict.
While we welcome the idea behind this year’s Mardi Gras theme, we’re really uncomfortable and concerned with the nationalistic agenda and overtones, he told Sydney Star Observer.
The use of flags in Australia is a highly political and contentious one. There’s this nationalism that is going on that doesn’t recognise that it’s actually alienating, or what celebrating nationality might mean to a queer Arab in the context of the world after 9/11 and anti-terrorism laws.
Beit el Hob raised its concerns with NMG, but had their requests for a pre-parade cultural sensitivity briefing rejected. For us as queer Arabs, that’s a dangerous area for us to go into, Arrage said.
We organise under the words -˜queer Arabs’ to avoid geopolitical issues, to try and bring our commonalities together rather than the things that would tear us apart.
The soundtrack for parody float Surry Hillsong will overlay the Islamic call to prayer with a Jewish spiritual song Avinu Malkeinu, alongside mixes featuring Dr Martin Luther King, gospel music, Hindu chants, Baptist preachings and Jedi.
Surry Hillsong organiser Ethel Yarwood said the float was intended to cause controversy.
NMG spokesman Damien Eames said they were disappointed Beit el Hob had decided not to participate this year, and rejected the idea the theme was potentially divisive.
This weekend you will see that there are is a huge variety of themes being expressed by parade entrants. Some fit clearly with Nations United. Some have nothing to do with it. It is ultimately up to parade entrants what they choose to do, he said.
Certainly from reading through descriptions of parade entrants there is a very positive emphasis on multiculturalism and diversity.
Tags: Beit el Hob, Mardi Gras parade
March 4th, 2009 @ 3:20 pm
Don’t worry Mardi Gras, you can never ever please everybody all of the time! If the Asian Marching boys don’t have a problem with this (as well as countless other cultural groups) then you are on the right path. Happy Mardi Gras!!
March 5th, 2009 @ 10:43 am
I think it’s sad that Mardi Gras won’t listen or talk to ethnic groups about the parade. Isn’t it supposed to be Nations United? What about being respectful?
March 5th, 2009 @ 11:38 am
Though it would be lovely if every person felt comfortable in the apolitical multicultural “small world” vibe of the parade, current geopolitics do not allow for this to be true, with some nationalities dubbed as “dangerous” and others “benign”. The point is that the queer Arab community represented by Beit el Hob expressed clearly that they did not feel the parade committee had fully though out the potential meanings and ramifications of this year’s theme. Honoring their request for awareness training would have shown an openness of the larger queer community to incorporate and respect the experiences of ALL its members. It is unfortunate that this opportunity was not embraced.
March 5th, 2009 @ 11:44 am
I think NMG needs to listen to a group of people when they say something is offensive. There is a lack of cultural competency when it comes to dealing with minority groups. John is wrong, the point of Mardi Gras is to make all the groups feel like they are included.
March 5th, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
this weeks souvenir poster depicting an aryanlike supermale ‘fucking’ the globe is the exact reason why its important for the community to forums such a pre-parade cultural sensitivity brief.
March 5th, 2009 @ 1:28 pm
Oh come one Kaz, there are plenty of ethnic groups who have no problem with the theme nor with Mardi Gras. Just because one group has a problem with it, don’t tain Mardi Gras as “not listening or talking” with groups. Wasn’t this the same group that got into a letter writing stoush in with a jewish group in the SSO after the parade last year? Some people just like to cause a fuss and stubbornly hold onto their point of view, whilst others just get on with life and agree to live and let live.
March 5th, 2009 @ 1:29 pm
Don’t worry Mardi Gras, as long as your white middle class senstivities are not offended by the critique of others you can employ any concept as a Mardi Gras theme, dress it up as tolerant liberal cosmopolitism and presto all is good…not. If you can’t seriously engage with people’s concerns around nationalism (post s11 or not) then you’ve well and truly lost me.
March 5th, 2009 @ 1:56 pm
No matter where youve come from, once youve come here, your Australian.
March 5th, 2009 @ 2:07 pm
oh yes, international envoys and ambassadors, millions of dollars in aide and countless international interventions can’t solve this international conflict, but Mardi Gras can solve these problems just like that??!?? I suppose they need to stop the polar ice caps from melting and shore up our economy too! Geez, you wonder why people even bother trying to be inclusive when all they get back is venom!!!
March 5th, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
Don’t get your knickers in a knot, John.
New Mardi Gras will continue to provide an opportunity for you and anyone else who likes to blithely wave coloured flags around, all empowerfulized because you can walk down a street with council and police approval. Concerns about community inclusion and cultural sensitivity (as Beit el Hob have raised) don’t matter one jot, because the whole exercise is about having a party, and it’s obviously too hard for the NMG board to consider their own social and cultural privileges.
March 5th, 2009 @ 4:12 pm
There might be only a Tiny sector of the community who will have issues with all the flag waving hullabaloo… but in this day and age, how do we expect minorities to be treated?
I’m with “Panagioti” — it seems to me that the request for a cultural sensitivity briefing was not asking too much. It’s a shame it won’t be included.
However, I am pretty confident that this community of individuals is capable of embracing and supporting one simple idea: Happy Mardi Gras to All.
March 5th, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
The most significant issue here is Mardi Gras’ failure as an organisation to genuinely reflect the diversity of our GLBTQ communities.
What was the intention behind the theme ‘Nations United’? New Mardi Gras Chair David Imrie in his welcome message in the festival guide isn’t able to give us any context for the theme except to make reference to “far-flung lands where people like us simply aren’t tolerated”.
In the festival guide the culturally diverse events come from independent artists and promoters, not from New Mardi Gras.
Mardi Gras’ wants “ethnics” to represent their home countries with a “national costume and a flag at minimum” in the parade. Did anyone bother to ask us? No.
As a woman of colour I am absolutely sick and tired of this shameful tokenism, racism and disrespect. It’s 2009, why do we still need to be having these discussions!? I am exhausted and I refuse to continue to have to educate the dominant culture.
I want to be part of a community and a queer movement that is about mutual respect, one that is genuinely inclusive, respectful and accepting of diversity. A community that can challenge its own privileges in whatever form they may come. I want to march in the parade ON MY OWN TERMS!
Wake up and smell the ahweh Mardi Gras.
March 5th, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
This is an appropriate and awesome response from Beit el Hob. Congratulations.
March 5th, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
NMG are being very narrow-sighted. I agree with Nassim’s comments and I am a white Aussie, born and bred. Check your privilege, queers of Australia! This issue for queer Arabs is not remotely the same as for people from the continents of Asia or Europe. Nassim is right to point out that post-911, we live in a very anti-Arab world and unfortunately Beit el Hob has good reason to be concerned for the safety of their participants. Excuse me, but have you all forgotten how Australia Day this year became an excuse to drape yourself in the Anglo-Aussie flag and go around bashing non-white people and expressing anti-immigrant sentiments?
NMG is being both naive and obnoxious by choosing this theme. I hope they do better next year and actually aim towards inclusion rather than division.
March 5th, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
It seems the vast majority of people are okay with the parade theme…and some are not.
Thus is it always so. But don’t have a tantie about it.
My take on the theme? Regardless of where we are from, homosexuality is a battle for acceptance.
As someone from a minority (Nicole, your outrage is all your own), I reflect on the tension of what is closest to my identity – ethnicity or sexuality.
Ss for compulsory cultural sensitivity lectures for people on the night – what a cringeworthy exercise that would be.
How ’bout just respect and tolerance for each other, including the people we disagree with. Covers everything doesn’t it?
March 6th, 2009 @ 12:05 am
I find it amazing that so many new people have crawled out of the woodwork to voice their opinion on this issue on this site. They don’t seem to comment on other issues on this site that affect the “broader queer community” perhaps they only seem to care about issues that personally affect them. (It’s almost like they have called in the troops to win the argument by pure numbers).
And Leila, the “Aryan” isn’t “fucking the globe” in the paper, he’s holding it to his crotch because it’s how we use our genitals that people have a problem with. And if you think that every blond person is an “Aryan” then that says more about you not about the design.
Personally I’m glad that whingers like these people won’t be a part of the parade. As David Eames said, some of the floats are going with the theme and others aren’t. The choice is yours. I hope you choose to never be a part of the parade again, because you seem ungrateful for all the effort NMG volunteers have put in to put this festival on for all of us, and seem to get your knickers in a knot over an issue that doesn’t need to be an issue for you because no-one is expecting you to wave whatever flags you think aren’t appropriate.
Happy Mardi Gras!
March 6th, 2009 @ 12:12 am
Adam,
Who is ‘the vast majority’? How do you know they’re ‘okay’ with the parade theme? And anyway, who says ‘okay’ is good enough?
Labelling a serious comment on an important discussion a ‘tantie’ is trivialising and, frankly, makes you sound ignorant.
Nicole’s outrage is clearly not her own. In fact, the vast majority of coherent and well-articulated voices expressed here in in agreement with hers.
The whole point here is that ‘respect’ and ‘tolerance’ are not simple words to be thrown about with a cocktail in your hand while you cringe at unfashionable discussion; they require education, deep thinking and action.
March 6th, 2009 @ 12:14 am
P.S. I personally am put off by marching in the parade because of a requirement to metaphorically drape myself in a flag. There is a ‘femme power’ float which is a great idea (femmes in big skirts taking up space) but unfortunately their idea has been compromised by having to accept an ‘Americana’ theme to get permission to march. My response to that, frankly, is f*ck off MG.
March 6th, 2009 @ 9:46 am
Rachel, 136 floats and only one boycott tells you the majority of the community accepts the theme.
Your call for “education, deep thinking and action” is fine for a university tutorial or a Glebe based collective.
But this is a gay and lesbian parade and protest.
Good on MG for recognising Australia is made up people from elsewhere…and the homosexuals in that community.
March 6th, 2009 @ 9:58 am
I read with some interest this article, and I’m not sure what my reaction is to be honest. I suppose, as an Arab Australian, I feel some sympathy with the feeling that national flags can be used as really aggressive and dividing symbols. I still remember what it felt like on the day of the Cronulla riots (and Australia day in Manly this year). On the day after the Cronulla riots, I remember walking through the city. I don’t think I’ve ever felt so afraid walking through Sydney (like walking through certain places as a gay man) or feeling like I didn’t belong anywhere.
This season could have been a great opportunity to have had a meaningful engagement about ethnicity, culture and sexuality beyond the usual, “It’s so bad in non-Western cultures for gays, look how good we are in the West”.
I contribute a lot to the GLBT community through my work, so I do appreciate the enormous amount of work that goes on to put on a festival – and it is usually thanklessly. So thank you to the volunteers – you often hear the criticisms, not the praise.
But on issues of ethnicity and sexuality, I think it is important to have a conservation about this in our community – and not just among New Mardi Gras. This is an issue for all of us to consider.
March 6th, 2009 @ 10:51 am
This debate makes me sigh alot.*sigh*
Acceptance, inclusion and diversity and the building of true community means having conversations and engaging. It means being big enough to recognise your privileges, acknowledge it, and then ask the questions of people who should be talked to. In this case queer people of colour.
I think Mardi Gras are probably trying to address issues of diversity. However it has come from a place of privilege and lack of true understanding as to how racism impacts people of colour. Which is incredibly ignorant.. and at the end of the day is racist. They have really just re-instated relationships based on power, and asserted their dominance within white australia.
p.s Adam.. can you really call the parade a protest now??
March 6th, 2009 @ 11:21 am
Adam,
There is actually a collective examining white privilege in the queer community – but it’s not in Glebe – it’s in Newtown at New Q Gallery on Enmore Road, and they meet tonight.
I agree with Ghassan and others – that at the moment, in Australia – flag waving is really really problematic – and strongly associated with scary Arab-bashing bogans. Desire and sexuality have no nation, and should be elabrated as forces that defy yucky boundaries of race, class and convention.
I don’t think that ‘deep thinking’ should be confined to University tutorials – but belongs on the streets, and can be part of the way people dance and fuck and celebrate with style, passion and compassion.
Mardis Gras will only stay vibrant and interesting if it can retain some flexibility and capacity to engage serious social critique, and creative political passion. Political engagement, sensitivity and solidarity are not boring, but shallow twinky monocultures ARE boring as well as shortlived.
have a great weekend everyone, and happy mardis gras
March 6th, 2009 @ 12:21 pm
Clearly MG are engaged in some political engagement here – and the fact their is disagreement is testament to the health of that debate (how boring if everyone agreed!).
Sadly some of the postings have all the posturing of student politics…and the accusation of racism is as pitiful as it is wrong.
On Saturday night, grab your flag, dip it in hot pink and wave it side by side with the rainbow flag.
March 6th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
Congratulations to Beit el Hob for taking this stand.
It highlights the issue that nobody seems to want to talk about – namely the way racialised and cultural differences continue to pervade ‘the community.’
Its no secret that Australia is a country strongly shaped by racism and cultural exclusion: we have a history of invasion and genocide towards Indigenous people, we have had a white Australia policy that was in operation until the early 1970s that has sharply shaped attitudes of what it means to be Australian. And the last decade of Australian politics – including our refugee policies and Cronulla – can hardly demonstrate that Australia has overcome its past.
And since 9/11, Australia has become involved in armed conflicts, and the associated rhetoric of war, that has alienated many people, and increased racism and Islamaphobia in the everyday life of many communities.
Why should we pretend that the Sydney GLBTQ community is above all this?
The aim of mardi gras should be welcome and hospitality. Yet frequently the activities, symbols and imagery of the community simply alienate people, and worse: perpetuate forms racialised domination that have historically been part of Australia’s past, and continue to this day, even in the GLBTQ community.
It is well and truly time for discussion on how we might make this community a home for all.
March 6th, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
“White privilege” “racist” “middle class” and a meeting of a collective in Newtown on a Friday night…sounds like third year in Political Economy at Sydney University.
All that is missing is a consciousness raising workshop -but we do have the call for ‘compulsory cultural sensitivity training’…can we bring back Simone Troy to lead them?
March 6th, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
I have to admit I was a little confused by the issues here. I understand that, contrary to mainstream belief, Arabs are diverse tribes, there are Arab Christians, Arab Jews etc., as well as the usual ethnicities with which our more ignorant culture normally associates the cliches, ‘of middle Eastern appearance’ and ‘terrorist.’
I imagine that Beit el Hob would prefer to march as simply ‘gay Arabs’ and not be forced back into those racial divides that are so problematic in their homelands. As a caucasian, I certainly always feel very uncomfortable with any kind of chauvinistic flag waving, being Australian simply indicates my geographical position in the world, not any superior quality. So gawd knows how intimidating it would be for Arabs to have to march amid a whole pageant of such jingoism, especially considering the extreme prejudice that the Bush – Howard years generated in scapegoating them.
For me, I’d have thought ‘Nations United’ meant marching under ONE flag.
March 6th, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
I think the boycott here does more damage to their constituents i.e. – gay arabs than address any cultural sensitivity issues in the Mardi Gras Parade. Yes – the theme is a little lame and obnoxious (Nations United, really?), but to punish gay and lesbian arabs who will probably come to the parade to see if there are people like them in the gay community says a lot more about the narrowness of the political debate on nationalism by some of these ivory tower academics than actually advance any practical political engagement on the issue.
March 6th, 2009 @ 3:56 pm
On reading these posts, there really is no question in my (white priveleged) mind that Mardi Gras has actually done the wrong thing – and I think any reasonable individual (regardless of their background) would recognise this.
What I am wondering today is: how else do we express all of these ideas to the to the wider community? It’s a total f%#&ing bummer that the hundreds of thousands of partygoers and TV viewers won’t hear any of these ideas without the full support of the Mardi Gras “establishment” this weekend.
Other than just not turning up tomorrow, what is a slacktivist like me going to do about it?
(no really – any ideas? …anyone? bueller?)
March 6th, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
Shayne, no-one is “forcing” anyone to march under any flags. There are plenty of floats that have nothing to do with the theme.
March 6th, 2009 @ 4:21 pm
i think mardi gras should have gone to the cultural sensitivity meeting. Wouldn’t have hurt – they might have learnt something. I’m sure there could have been some consensus reached on an appropriate parade entry without a lot of nationalistic flags.
March 6th, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
After 30 posts I’m still not sure what Beit el Hob’s flag phobia has to do with being Arab. If they’re objecting to flags as generic symbols of a nationalism to which they have a standing politically-based aversion, fair enough, don’t wave them – was NMG insisting that they did? – but WTF has that got to do with being Arab?
Flags and banners are incredibly powerful symbols in the Arab world as anyone who stood in Martyrs Square in Beirut in the weeks after the assassination of Rafik Hariri in 2005 could testify. The square was a sea of Lebanese flags and the Cedar of Lebanon a powerful unifying symbol for Muslim, Christian and Druze.
I don’t buy the bullshit that the Australian flag is inherently oppressive and racist any more than I buy the bullshit that the actions of out of it, ignorant, bogan teenagers – whether their antecedents lie in the Shire or Lakemba – should be allowed to ultimately determine the way that flags are used in a celebration of gay culture.
NMG may be guilty of a tacky parade design choice (is it true that all the HIV floats are grouped under Africa – coz that’s where HIV is happening?) but it’s not guilty of fomenting Anglo-centric racism, not responsible for the Cronulla riots and not required to apologise to a bunch of over-sensitive posturers who are using ethnicity to make a point that is purely – and much more honestly – made as a political point. Happy Mardi Gras.
March 6th, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
Quote from NMG “Some fit clearly with Nations United. Some have nothing to do with it. It is ultimately up to parade entrants what they choose to do.”
No one is forced to carry any flags. Most of these postings ignore that point.
March 6th, 2009 @ 11:12 pm
Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
March 7th, 2009 @ 8:46 am
Lots of opinions, but as no one seems to understand what the issue is, I’d have thought the point was, “Beit el Hob raised its concerns with NMG, but had their requests for a pre-parade cultural sensitivity briefing rejected.” merlot.
March 7th, 2009 @ 9:03 am
HGD, you have nailed it on the head.
March 7th, 2009 @ 2:01 pm
Shayne, it’s not clear from the story who the “cultural sensitivity briefing” was for. Was it to meet with the organisers of NMG or was it to deliver a homily and lecture to each of the 136 floats.
March 7th, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Whether or not Beit el Hob is marching this year, queer arabs will be marching in tonight’s parade. They will be part of the 130+ floats celebrating tonight.
The core message I want to get across is that I and others who make Beit El Hob happen, did not want to organise under the Beit El Hob banner this year. Some of us felt it was an unsafe environment for ourselves and potentially for other members of Beit El Hob.
I cannot speak for all queer arabs – what we have in common is that we are a queer, we come from an arabic-speaking background and we live in australia – in every other way we are a diverse group of people with differing opinions. This is a great thing.
Happy Mardi Gras to all. Mardi Gras was first and should always be a site of rebellion and protest as well as a time of celebration and being proud of ourselves as beautiful queer people.
March 7th, 2009 @ 10:48 pm
merlot, the history of conflict in the middle east is incredibly complicated. You’re probably aware that we signed off on the coalition that slaughtered massive numbers of Iraqis and Afghanis, mostly innocent civilians. WE don’t do a body count of their side, but the Opinion Research Business survey estimted 1,033,000 violent deaths as a result of the conflict in Iraq alone. You may have heard of the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, – about 1000 civilians killed – but you may not have heard of the 100′s of 1000′s of cluster bombs that were dropped on that country just hours before the war ended, which still take the lives and limbs of mostly children. Nor may have you heard of the 300-page list compiled by the Red Cross, Amnesty etc of documented war crimes committed against the Palestinians, including burying children alive, dropping phosphorous to burn civilians alive, gunning down those trying to escape…and hundreds of other obscene acts.
So when Mr Arrage says, -œFor us as queer Arabs, that’s a dangerous area for us to go into, I can probably understand how they might find marching in a sea of flag waving a little intimidating, can’t you? But I do admit, with the quote taken out of context, as it is in the article, it’s a little difficult to speculate on that to which he was referring.
March 9th, 2009 @ 5:22 pm
The issue is not that most cultural groups accept the flag-waving aspect of the 2009 Mardi Gras theme but that one didn’t. I’m therefore very disappointed that NMG wasn’t more open and considerate. It’s the sort of response gay and lesbian and other sexual minorities get from straights continually.
March 10th, 2009 @ 10:59 am
J Foster – I’ve got a problem with the parade as well (i’m one person) – there is too much glitter – even Amnesty with their banned nooses were wearing glitter – how can we be taken seriously if all we ever do is glitter things up! – will I get a hearing from NMG??
Shayne, do you seriously believe that queer arabs would be afraid to march in the parade just because of other flags are being waved??? give them alittle bit more courage than that! Waving their own flags might be a different story, but seeing greek, chinese, brazilian flags being waved wouldn’t send them into panick mode.
And I would’ve thought that homophobia would’ve been much more prevalent than anti-middle eastern sentiment on a night like that. I saw plenty of homophobia after the parade all throughout the city. it makes me wonder whether the parade does any good in educating people about what the glbt community is really about (see my point to Jodie above).
March 10th, 2009 @ 11:02 am
Ok – Parade has now been and gone – can anyone of the umpteen posters above TELL ME how many floats were nationalistic and flag waving … anyone ….. ???
Lets list a couple of the ones that weren’t
Taronga Zoo (not a sponsor, and employer)
Surry Hillsong (parody)
NSW Rural Fire
Lance Goward Tribute
Defence Force (not a uniform in sight to ensite national jingoism)
State Transit (they can’t even make Buses run on time)
Bingham Cup 2010 (rugby players!)
Lesbians on the Coast
Housing NSW
The Freemasons
Don’t feed the Bisexuals
United Bear TAles
Hot West (unless Penrith deglared soverign nation status before parade)
MCC
Sydney Atheists
I coudl go on, but I think that all of you get the drift …. no nationalism in these floats. I think they got their knickers in a knot because of Kabi and Surry Hillsong. They need to sit in a room full of mirrors and take a big long hard look at themselves …
March 10th, 2009 @ 11:31 am
John, I can’t speak for gay arabs. But I think if I had to march under, with, behind or before someone waving the flag of a nation who had committed such atrocities against my homeland, neighbours, family etc., I’d rather not. If I had to march next to this:
http://www.samesame.com.au/gallery/12565/photo/99832/Mardi-Gras-Parade-2009.htm
I think I’d buy some lamingtons and go home.
March 10th, 2009 @ 1:45 pm
So Shayne, how to gay australian-arabs cope on Australia Day? It’s abit of a victim mentality to just say we won’t take part in it because we’ve got a minority of us have a problem with some nationalistic flags (because not all arabs “nations” have been “invaded” by the imperliast forces of the West).
and I agree, I too have a problem with that guy in the photo – waaa-aaay too much glitter! (See my point to Jodie above).
But good to see that you are not speaking for gay arabs.
March 10th, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
‘a minority of us have a problem with some nationalistic flags ‘? LOLZ. Now pay attention.
I said from the start that the history of conflict is incredibly complicated. But to look at what just one of those flags means to billions of people, in the 230 years since the Declaration of Independence, the US has invaded other countries on more than 200 occasions, an average of one foreign incursion every 14 months in the nation’s history.
Australia is the only country in the world that has fought alongside the Americans in every major war of the 20th and 21st centuries. When America goes to war, so do we.
So who do you think might take more offence than your sequinphobia at having to march wiuth trhe Stars and Stripes dude? Maybe one who’s loved ones were killed by US bombs in the last 20 years, the list of those countries bombed by the US in that time includes, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991, Kuwait 1991, Somalia 1993, Bosnia 1994, 1995, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998 til the present, Yugoslavia 1999, Yemen 2002, Iraq 1991-2003, Iraq 2003-05, Afghanistan 2001-05, Iran, Pakistan, 2002-03. Countless millions of lives. How surprising then, that “a minority of us have a problem with some nationalistic flags.” :-(
Next we can talk about the 300 pages of war crimes attributed to Israel if you like.
Btw., I don’t celebrate Australia Day, I remember Invasion Day. But ya coulda guessed that, huh?
March 10th, 2009 @ 5:25 pm
Shayne, you do a great job of listing all the issues in the Mid East, BUT you fail to mention the many missiles lobbed over the border into Isreal. Like much of the media we read in Australia its all anti Israeli. As a proud Zionist I can honestly say – THERE ARE FAULTS ON BOTH SIDES!!!!
While I can read between the lines and can agree to differ with you, can you please accurately report the truth.
The Mid East is an area of conflict, hatred and extremely complex issues. It is also a wonderful place full of vibrant peoples, vibrant customs and vibrant ways of life.
Due to the many many years of fighting, for some it is their entire lives. My Mother survived the Holocaust, saw active duty in the 1948 War of Independance, and has spent most of her 88 years fighting for her rights and the rights of the Jewish People. Whilst doing this she has seen, (and I have too), family and friends, loved ones killed in front of us.
With personal history like this, and the people on the other side have experienced the same issues, it is understandable that there is no simple solution.
I think the “Beit el Hob” group should have marched, after discussing the NMG an appropriate safe place for them in the march, and if necessary some security for there personal safety.
Beit el Hob’s lack of presence has meant the message of inclusivity was not sent out this year, the Arab community ,if they saw the parade or the Foxtel coverage – they would say – “look NO ARAB QUEERS”. The mullahs would be preaching about Mardi Gras calling it an abomination of the non muslim world.
We are everywhere and our sexual identity is our common link.
I have friends from every major religious belief and we live in harmony as we respect each others right to believe.
March 11th, 2009 @ 9:29 am
I think we need to be careful evoking the Holocaust, Alain Millett.
While I’m sure there is some value to Israel in assuming the sympathy for the persecution of Jews in the Holocaust, Zionism is something altogether different, it’s all about territorial imperialism. Indeed, if you read the gems of one of the Zionist founders, Yehezkel Kaufman, you’d see that the movement was quite antisemitic, (“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .”) etc. The tactic, of course, is to deliberately incite hatred of the Jew and then, in feigned horror, use it to justify the existence of the Zionist state. Antisemitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement.
I had a Jewish boyf for 20 years, my god daughter is Jewish. Torah-true Jews wish to live in peace and harmony, they deplore the acts of hatred and violence carried out by those who misuse the name of Israel and have substituted chauvinist nationalism for the values of the Torah. Zionist idealogy is totally contrary to traditional Jewish law and beliefs and the teachings of the Torah.
To exploit the suffering of Jews in the holocaust and evoke ‘antisemitism’ is just part of the way the Israeli propaganda works.
March 12th, 2009 @ 3:57 am
It sounds like a classic case of cultural insensitivity to me. People who don’t have the same experiences of marginalisation and discrimination belittle the concerns of others because they can’t relate to it. It seems confusing, subtle and overblown to people with the privilege of not being forced to have to think deeply about how Nationalism representation would affect them. That’s a natural but problematic reaction.
We need to have empathy and an open ear to the concerns of others, particularly people who are especially marginalised. We can’t assume that the way we see the world is a fair standard to judge the situations of others who have different experiences and opportunites. (Outside the box of our own perspectives).
-Eli
March 12th, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Eli – if the group didn’t want to march with flags, they didn’t have to. That sounds like empathy and sensitivity to me. And if, say the Tamils objected to marching under the Sri Lankan flag, there was always the Aussie Flag…or no flag at all.
if any group had something to worry about, it was the one waving the Israeli flag after the reporting on Israeli military action in Gaza).
Finally, having “empathy and an open ear” does not mean one group can dictate the parade theme should be changed.
March 12th, 2009 @ 2:14 pm
“The tactic, of course, is to deliberately incite hatred of the Jew and then, in feigned horror, use it to justify the existence of the Zionist state. Antisemitism is the oxygen of the Zionist movement.” Absolute rubbish, Shayne Chester. It’s also offensive to suggest that Zionists “deliberately incite hatred of the Jew” – it’s tantamount to saying that Jews are responsible for antisemitism.
Do you also believe that gay people are responsible for homophobia?
Zionism is the legitimate movement of the Jewish people for a homeland in their historic lands. It is not about territorial imperialism. It’s about the Jewish people’s right to self-determination.
By the way, guess which Middle Eastern country has the best record on gay and lesbian rights in the region? Go on, guess – I’ll give you a clue – its flag has a blue Star of David on it.
March 13th, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Rebecca, the idea of a Jewish state only emerged as a relevant political movement during a time of resurgent anti-semitism (late 19th to mid 20th centuries). Before that, Zionism was not a serious issue for Jewish people. Even today most Jewish people live outside Israel rather than in the so-called Jewish homeland – probably because they don’t like the idea of living in a walled-off ghetto.
Personally, I’d tone down ALL flag-waving. Nationalism of all varieties usually results in violence. That’s something I’d rather avoid.
March 13th, 2009 @ 11:44 am
Hey David, Yes, I’m very well aware of both the history of Zionism and of modern demographics. I was merely offering a working definition of Zionism, rather than a discussion of its history or of the many ideological tendencies that can be found inside the big Zionist tent. I also know that other people will use other definitions. I’m no newcomer to this one.
March 13th, 2009 @ 2:48 pm
Rebecca , the quote, “It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . . is from the diary of one of the founders of Zionism, Yehezkel Kaufman.
The point is that antisemitism suits the purposes of Zionism, (and modern Israel) very well. Critics of Israel’s atrocities against it’s neighbours are often called antisemitic, and the sufferings of the holocaust are invoked.
However, Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. In its current form Zionism seeks domination of the Middle East, particularly Palestine, by means of violence. They claim this land was given to them by god in the Old Testament (Genesis 15:18).
Many Jews are totally opposed to Zionism and to Israel’s policies in the occupied territories of the West Bank. Zionism is actually antithetical to the spirit and teachings of the Torah.
March 15th, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
Shayne, Yehezkel Kaufman was a biblical scholar who was born way too late (1889, a mere seven years before Theodor Herzl’s ‘The Jewish State’ was published) to be one of the founders of Zionism. He would have been a child when the first Zionist congress was held in in the 1890s. If you mean he was around when the state of Israel was founded, then that’s a different statement. It doesn’t make him a founder of Zionism as a movement.
Also, I do know that Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. As previously stated, I’m not a newcomer to this. I also know that some Torah-true Jews are opposed to Zionism and other Torah-true Jews (see the teachings of Rav Kook or observe that the IDF has a unit especially for haredim who choose to serve – they’re normally exempt) are enthusiastic Zionists.
Some Zionists, eg religious settlers in the West Bank, claim the land was given to them by God in the Torah, and other Zionists are religiously non-observant supporters of gay rights, for instance, who believe that the West Bank settlements need to be dismantled. And there’s a whole range in between. It’s much more complex than you paint it, as even a short visit to Israel will prove.
And … we’re right off the topic of this thread!
March 17th, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
There were plenty of Arab marchers anyway, in other floats- some with national flags, and some with none at all.
This Beit el Hob group have separated themselves & boycotted the parade when they could have clearly avoided having flags at all & attended. Definately not in the spirit, & not a good separatist corner they have backed themselves into with this action, when obviously many other Arab marchers did attend & had no problem.
The parade was a fantastic unifying success, with many Arab marchers in various floats, filling in the void by Beit el Hob.
Like I said- there was no need to have flags- they were not compulsory.
Maybe one way out of this mess for next year is for Beit el Hob to form a parade group similar to the “Asian Marching Boys”, with perhaps the “Arab Marching Boys”? It’s worth a try.
March 20th, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
Overall, the Arab gay boys are generally very good-looking and very sexy – we need them just as we need everyone to participate, without prejudice.