Gays tolerated in Catholic schools
Catholic schools in NSW are combating homophobic bullying with the -˜hate the sin, love the sinner’ approach, an inquiry heard last week.
Catholic Education Commission policy director Ian Baker told the NSW bullying inquiry he wanted to challenge the assumption that Catholics promote the bullying of homosexuals.
Quoting catechism, he said homosexual persons must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.
But the Catholic Church had no intention of backing away from its understanding of family, marriage and sexuality.
They are not mutually exclusive propositions and certainly no Catholic educator should be harassing, bullying or demeaning any person of homosexual persuasion, Baker said.
Each diocese and school could develop their own anti-bullying policy, he said, but the example offered by the Commission specifically addressed homophobia and racism as causes, and suggested strategies for making Catholic schools safer environments.
Greens MP John Kaye challenged the Commission on how Catholic schools could be safe for same-sex attracted students when Archbishop George Pell said the normalisation of homosexuality was eroding the moral ecology of society and was a greater health hazard than smoking.
Archbishop Pell is a leader of one of the dioceses that runs Catholic schools. If you are modelling empathetic behaviour and then Archbishop Pell says things that are openly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuality, is there not a disjuncture between what is being said? Kaye asked.
Respect for human dignity and human rights were applied equally, Catholic child protection officer Carolyn Hadley said, whether bullying was based on same-sex attraction, racism or any other distinction.
We would make a very clear distinction between the moral rejection of certain behaviours and the acceptance and understanding of the person and respecting that person’s rights and dignity within the school setting.
Kaye told Sydney Star Observer he was appalled by the response and felt it let down same-sex attracted students who are already at greater risk of suicide.
Chris – not sure what you mean about how I exercise my hetro ego. But I’m hardly “bummed for being in the minority here”. Fucken hell mate it’s a gay website afterall so I would hardly expect not to be in the minority.
With your pub/club issue, if you think that gay venues have been spoiled by the presence of too many straight people, then, yes, I can see how you’d feel this way. If I was gay, I wouldn’t want my local taken over by straights either. Nothing wrong with that. But on the flipside, if I thought my straight local was spoiled by the presence of too many gay people, I’d be labelled a homophobe and a bigot and be ordered to undergo some sort of bullshit “diversity training” so I would be more “inclusive” and “tolerant” of people with a different sexuality than mine.
James – “As for equality, well the way I look at it, you can’t be -œequal when it comes to certain things that apply to straight people because you are -œdifferent”
– Thats where I disagree. The only thing different is the partner we sleep with is the same-sex. The world is changing and more and more hetrosexuals are now agreement that we are generally no different. Maybe I can come along and judge you and decide if your different, and then i’ll act on my judgements in a prejudiced manner, good idea James ?
James is coming from a straight male point of view, to him being harrased buy being called gay, faggot etc would be seen as accseptable slang in good humour – typical.
James – Here we go again, I’ve read you’re rants/posts on previous articles – excersising/fluanting your hetro ego everywhere etc your just bummed that you are the minority here, what is with the straight guys with that?? if there not the dominant characters then something MUST have to be done.
Congratulations
P.S You BORE me/us.
[Insert you’re pointless “comeback” remarks in this space]
P.S : My arguments (and many others who share the opinion) are based on how our pubs/clubs/area’s have been spoiled by the majority – something you will never understand and I wont go into detail as youre just not worth it.
Oliver – if I can’t have an understanding of the situation because I’m not gay, then please don’t expect me (or 95% of the population) to show any concern for this issue in the future.
Because I’m not gay, I’ll shut up now as requested.
Jason – there was no homophobic bullying that I saw, and I doubt there was any. I doubt very much if the school wouldn’t have put up with it. It had a strong anti-bullying policy. Plus, most of the boys wouldn’t have put up with another boy being bullied for any reason.
As for equality, well the way I look at it, you can’t be “equal” when it comes to certain things that apply to straight people because you are “different” (I don’t mean that as harshly as it may sound by the way). Just like there might be things that apply to gay people (or men and not women, and women and not men) that don’t apply to straight people because they are “different”.
Given that you are gay, I think you guys are doing fine with what you are entitled to in society. Wanting to get married is, for example, is treading on “our” turf! Bugger off (in a nice way)!
On a more important matter, this morning at Erskineville I’m in this cafe near the station waiting for my takeaway coffee, and as the guy puts it on the counter this bloke comes out of nowhere and nicks it. Bastard!
James, if your not Gay, then dont comment here please as you have a lack of understanding of this situation. Thanks.
James why do you think us GLBT’S want equality ? Im yet to meet a GLBT person who does not want equality. If we are “in your face” (as you put it) striving for equality I make no apologies. Also you cannot tell me that in the 80’s in a high school that there was no homophobic bullying, your eyes and ears must have been painted on.
Oliver – dunno if I explained the culture of bullying or just exaplined a normal school situation amongst boys trying to become men.
Jason – the only fairy tale I had was with my english teacher’s daughter, and it only lasted about 30 seconds (okay 20 seconds, I am prone to exaggeration). But I agree that there may have been homophobic bullying that I didn’t notice. Maybe it’s more prevalent in schools where there’s less discipline.
University’s a different story. You get these gays, muslims, christians, people who believe they’ve been abducted by aliens, etc all coming out of the closet / mosque / church / UFO / etc bothering you in such an “in your face manner” with their issues and drive for “equality” and all this other crap that it’s simply a turn off. Fine; be gay, a muslim, christian, abductee, vegetarian-farkin-whale-saving-tree-hugging-left-wing freak but leave me the fark alone and don’t expect the world to change to cater your “niche”! Seriously no wonder some people end up getting picked on!
James your school life sounds like a fairy tale, Ok maybe homophobic bullying was not very visable but its my view that back in the 80’s there would have been at least some homophobic bullying, Im guessing you never noticed. And yes because private schools are excempt from the anti-discrimination laws they can expel a gay student if they wanted to, and it has happened in the USA.
There you go. James, what you explained is the Culture that creates Bullying. The ones that “Cop it” at school are most difficult to work with in the Workplace. They never forget their Tormentors and the oned that gave them a hard time. They are moody and angry people to work with. Once they become Managers, Oh! Look out! Who do they take it out on? Yes their own Staff! James, it may seem harmless but have a look at the Cycle of abuse it creates.
Jason – those boys that were successful with the girls were in the minority, and their actual successes were few and far between (at least mine were), so there was no indirect pressure on a gay boy to be romantic with a female. Come to think of it, there was no pressure on anyone to be successful with the girls. It’s just that those that were successful were held in high esteem, at least for a few weeks.
There were obvioulsy one or two boys at school who’s heterosexuality was questionable, but no one picked on them. I guess we were all a target for some pretty harmless ribbing at times (not bullying as such) for one reason or another. One guy copped it a bit because he was a computer geek, another copped it cause he had a face like a “smashed crab”, another because his father was a minister and another because he had a slight American accent. I copped it from a few boys for no particular reason, but it was all pretty harmless and no one suffered for it.
Someone mentioned that religous schools are allowed to expel gay boys. My school was religous, but I doubt they would have expelled anyone unless they were breaking the rules of the school or the code of behaviour on a repeated basis. We had different boys from all sorts of backgrounds that had to be “accommodated” to some degree, but we all had a common bond and that was the school itself, its ethos and its teachers. Basically, if the school was not fulfilling our needs we would have gone elsewhere.
James – “The guys that were held in high regard were those that were successful with the ladies rather than those successful on the sporting field”
– Well thats prejudiced against the same-sex attracted high school boys. Encouraging a gay boy to be romantic with a female is the same as encouraging you to be romantic with a male. Imagine James if the school’s undertone was that if you were to be highly regarded then you must be romanticly involved with the same-sex. Do you see how silly and prejudiced that is, I know it was the 80’s but still…. Sadly the same sort of thing is still happening today as a high number of high schools (even state schools) are banning there students bringing a same-sex partner along with them to the ball.
Jason and Oliver.
Fair points there to both of you.
I went to a private school in Sydney (Eastern Suburbs) finishing in the mid 80’s. There was no real bullying at the school, and certainly no homophobic bullying. Well, none I could see. I was in the minority a bit as I wasn’t from the area, wasn’t from a “rich” family, we didn’t have a summer house in Palm Beach and didn’t spend winters skiing.
The guys that were held in high regard were those that were successful with the ladies rather than those successful on the sporting field. No one really had their sexuality questioned. I was quite successful with the girls (more out of luck and them having consumed too much alcohol than anything else) so I never got hassled.
On another note, I came across an old school friend on facebook recently. He’s as queer as folk and appears with no shirt on wearing only his speedos lying semi-suggestively in the water at a beach somewhere. Even though he looks good, I can’t help but wonder why he has to display himself like that at his (our) age. Really, how typically gay.
James, I can imagine you went to school Pre HIV AIDS time. A lot has changed since then. In your day, people accepted this behaviour, but nowadays it doesnt have to be tolerated. A lot of old people I come across nowadays are the mirror image of their Corporal Punishing abusers. James, Society is doing nothing to deal with any sort of Bullying. You can have a thousand Gay Activists and Do Do Gooders but at the end of the day are just “All Talk, No Action” Might I also add that In the English speaking world, youth have always been looked down at with suspicion. So in a situation where a youth is being beaten and verbally abused, the oldie generation will usually think, “Oh! He probably deserves it, silly Kids!!” or simply “Boys Will be Boys!” attitude.
James – “at least incident of verbal or physical abuse at school is hardly going to make people commit suicide. We all copped it at school for one reason or another”
– Well James how do you explain all the gays and lesbians who have attempted suicide and they claimed bullying was a major factor in there attempt of suicide. There are lots of studies which prove bullying can contribute to suicide. Its common knowledge that more and more gay teens are comming out at ages of 15 or 16, and my view is that if more is not done to prevent GLBT bullying the problem is only going to increase and not disapear.
James, if you don’t think bullying can make a person want to commit suicide, then clearly you didn’t “cop it” enough at school.
Homophobic bullying is more than just run-of-the-mill name calling and cruelty- it’s about a perceived majority power and casting gays and lesbians as a perverse “other”.
As a white Australian I’ve had racist slurs thrown at me now and then and other than when it came with a very real threat of violence it’s never really effected me. However being called a faggot in school or now by strangers in the street always hits me.
The difference? As a white Australian I’m in the majority and as a majority, whether they mean too or not, by simple mathematics white Australians control this country. However as a gay man, I’m in a minority- I don’t have the power and my rights are dictated to me by the whim of the majority.
A person making racial slurs against a white Australian in this country isn’t going to assume he has the views of a silent majority on his side because the majority of Australians are white. In comparison, however incorrect they are, homophobes and white Aussie racists generally feel they are enforcing the views of a silent majority even though opinion polls tell us differently.
That being said, I think straight kids benefit from preventing homophobic bullying as well. My experience from attending an all boys high school is that teenage males often use homophobic bullying as a way of proving their masculinity and heterosexuality to their peers- particularly if they’re virgins or haven’t had a girlfriend yet- and if there isn’t a genuine homosexual around they’re all too happy to turn on one of their own for a scapegoat.
For straight boys, having their sexuality constantly questioned and doubted as part of a campaign of bullying can often be just as destructive for them as being persecuted and vilified for their actual sexuality can be for gay teens.
An additional factor in religious private schools is that they have the right to expel gay students, so gay kids facing homophobic bullying risk that as well when trying to make school officials take things seriously, as if they don’t reveal their sexuality it may be dismissed as run-of-the-mill bullying or “boys being boys” and not get the attention from staff it needs- and if they do reveal it they might end up getting punished for it by those who are supposed to be there to protect them.
Jason – “at least incident of verbal or physical abuse at school” is hardly going to make people commit suicide. We all copped it at school for one reason or another.
Bullying has become typical in the Western World. Australia is the modern day equivalent of the “Lost City of Atlantis” Weve just experienced the most materialistic existence Mankind has ever experienced before. With Materialism comes Greed, Jealousy, Anger, manipulation and the need to be materially and sexually satisfied. This is what our generation knows nothing better. Where are the teachers in this situations? Having a coffee in the staff room where they feel completely safe? Bitching about their already high wages? Have a look at the recent scandal of Abuse in the Catholic System in Ireland! Catholicism has a history of being a brutal, Sadistic Institution. And hey, some kids tend to copy what their elders do! and there you have a cycle of abuse!!!
James a report by the Latrobe University revealed that the most common place of homophobic abuse was at school. 74% of young people who had suffered homophobic abuse reported at least one incident of verbal or physical abuse at school. Link to the Latrobe study: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/ssay/publications.html
James – “homophobic bullying should be dealt simply as bullying; the same way that bullying a person for being -œugly should be dealt with” – Exactly but thats not working and the gay teen suicide rate is on the increase. Ask any gay/lesbian teen and Im sure they will tell you that teachers often turn a blind eye to gay slurs in the classroom. A number of schools seem to not want to deal with homophobia. Its not a simple issue as you put it.
Jason – homophobic bullying should be dealt simply as bullying; the same way that bullying a person for being “ugly” should be dealt with.
It’s certainly got nothing to do with telling people to go f*ck themselves.
James – Questioning if homophobic bullying be given special consideration is pretty much saying to young GLBT teens “go f**k your self”
James – “Why should homophobic bullying be given special consideration” – Maybe because homophobic bullying has never been taken seriously as with the effects from homophobic bullying. A recent Australian study found that gay-identified young men (aged 18 – 24) were 3.7 times more likely to attempt suicide. Most of these attempts occurred after the person had self-identified as gay, but before having a same-sex experience and before publicly identifying themselves as gay. Here is a weblink to the federal government study I quoted my statistics from:
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/3B17F057A84FB8D2CA25702D001E946F/$File/lrnall_resc.pdf (its on page 33)
Being abused for “trivial” reasons is easier to shake off than being bullied about some fundamental part of yourself. If you were black, asian, disabled, jewish, had two mums or were gay yourself, you would internalise that abuse and think eventually feel there was something wrong with you. By definition bullying is the REPEATED abuse of someone. Not one offs.
Andrew M. Potts – yes I do. That is, no type of bullying deserves any “special treatment”; whether based on race, sexual preference, religion, etc. Kids pick on other kids for all sort of reasons that more often than not have nothing to do with the above example. It can be because a kid is hopeless at sport (eg. “greasemonkey keeps dropping the ball”), is fat, is thin, has big ears, is ugly, has a big nose…
When I was at school, the vast majority of bullying occurred for these trivial reasons.
Dont forget, Gays bully other Gays.
James, do you also believe that racist and sectarian bullying deserve no special treatment?
Bullying is bullying. Why should homophobic bullying be given special consideration?
Misbehaviour by students and teachers is, and always has been, prohibited at all schools. The prohibition has not stopped bullying, either homophobic, racist or any other kind.
I suggest that the educational institutions, or more correctly the people who run those institutions do not care about the matter because they are not personally affected by homophobic bullying.
A policy that might reduce homophobic bullying in educational institutions is to apply a financial penalty to any educational institution at which an investigation has shown that an act of homophobic bullying has occurred.