How do the masses feel about marriage equality?
While Australian politicians often cite religious views as a reason not to support marriage equality, new research from the Public Religion Research Institute in the United States has shown that most American Catholics support some form of legal same-sex relationship recognition.
Forty-three percent are in favour of marriage equality and a further 28 percent are in favour of civil unions, more than for any other Christian denomination.
However, the Catholic Church in Australia and the US firmly opposes allowing same-sex couples to marry, and uses this view to justify attempts to openly influence Australian politics.
For example, in the lead-up to the NSW state election, thousands of staff and students at the Australian Catholic University received “The Greens Agenda: A Message from Catholic Bishops in NSW”, information citing the Greens’ pro-marriage equality position as one of several reasons not to vote for them.
Speaking to the Star Observer, the spokesman for the Melbourne branch of gay Catholic group Acceptance, Bernie Huckle, said same-sex marriage was a focal point for an increasing gap between the attitudes of the Catholic Church and ‘ordinary’ Catholics.
“They are already in dissent with what the church hierarchy’s teachings are,” he said.
“They are very much disengaged from the church and they’ve got much more relevant views. I think that might be the reason why they would accept same-sex marriage.”
Huckle argued that hypocrisy within the church around issues of sexual abuse makes it easier for many Catholics to ignore some directives from the Vatican.
“[Catholics] think the church is one step behind what today’s society is about and, for that reason, they take an opposite view to the church,” he said.
ACU academic and Jesuit priest Father Frank Brennan is not in favour of marriage equality but supports civil union legislation for same-sex relationships.
He told the Star Observer that Catholic teachings on marriage and homosexuality come from the Vatican’s official doctrine that sexual activity is to be procreative and take place within a marriage between a man and a woman, but that a difference between teachings from the Vatican and Catholic churchgoers is understandable.
“Obviously people in the pews are dealing with a variety of social situations, presumably including that they have gay and lesbian friends, they have gay and lesbian family members,” Brennan said.
He believes that the debate around same-sex marriage would force the Catholic community to think afresh about issues to do with sexuality, human relationships, law and marriage.
However, Brennan cautioned against characterising Catholics as a whole community in simplistic moral terms, and said Catholics hold a wide range of views on matters of same-sex marriage and homosexuality.
“Let’s be careful with the language, slipping into ‘the church’. The common people in the pews formulate views and have certain practices in their lives,” he said, adding that while the formal church hierarchy has had a consistent line on gay issues, it is not the only Catholic perspective.
“I think that there’s room for a variety of viewpoints within the Catholic tradition on that,” Brennan argued.
Huckle agrees that these different viewpoints within the Catholic community shouldn’t be interpreted simply as a split between the views of the church hierarchy and those of churchgoers.
“It’s not black and white, it’s far from it,” he said. “There are conservative and there are also progressive parts of the church which are for change.”
Huckle pointed to a recent Vatican move to reject the ‘user-friendly’ English translation of the Mass and move to a more literal translation of the original Latin as an example of divisions within the Catholic community.
“Some of the more progressive priests will choose to ignore these changes because they find they’re going back to the old Latin translation which is dead and gone,” he said.
Even Acceptance as an organisation has generally been met with support, or at least tolerance, from Australian Catholic institutions, and all branches of the group have been allowed to hold services in church.
“Here in Melbourne, providing we don’t advertise within the church for new members, the hierarchy leaves us alone,” Huckle said.
While more liberal priests and progressive groups such as Acceptance may be seen as forces for change within the Catholic Church, the debate around same-sex marriage may also be seen as a divisive issue.
“It will widen the gap between what the ordinary Joe Blow Catholic thinks and the hierarchy,” Huckle argued.
“It’s already wide enough as it is at the moment but this is going to make it even more so.”
Out of step?
By BENJAMIN RILEY
Why is there no mention that most Muslims oppose homosexuality and homosexual marriage because such acts are deemed to be sinful in the Koran? I read that Islam is the second largest (and fastest growing) religion in the world.
I am an agnostic liberal who opposes same-sex marriage, as do many other people including some homosexuals, but fanatical same-sex marriage advocates (often Marxists obsessed with social equity at any cost) like to pretend people who oppose same-sex marriage are irrational, homophobic religious bigots (invariably Christians as they seem to think Muslims have no view on the matter?).
Thomas Jefferson summed up liberal values best when he wrote: “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.” Thus homosexual, incestuous and polygamous marriages are illiberal because they validate homosexual, incestuous and polygamous families, which violate the rights and needs of children in order to service the needs of selfish adults (pedopaths).
Marriages that validate family formats that naturally deprive children of their right to a mother and a father, a healthy body due to inbreeding, or create murderous interfamily jealousies, would be a hideous betrayal of the children we are duty bound to protect. Our duty to protect children and society must be our primary concern, not the exercise of real or imagined rights or freedoms that undermine that duty. Primum officium.
People who push for same-sex marriage seem oblivious to the mounting danger of a backlash against same-sex marriage and homosexuals in general, many of whom have been conned into supported an illiberal cause by Marxist intellectuals who cannot deal honestly with the gay marriage issue as they know it is unethical and illiberal as it would harm children and society, people who reinforce the widespread belief that most intellectuals are ideologues who care more about [their] ideas than human beings.
As much as I would so frequently be in agreement with Father Frank Brennan, I can’t on this occasion. His claim “…that Catholic teachings on marriage and homosexuality come from the Vatican’s official doctrine that sexual activity is to be procreative and take place within a marriage between a man and a woman…” is contradicted by the fact that the Catholic church “approved” the “Rythum method” as a form of contraception in the last century. Recognising that sex is a normal part of a loving relationship, and not simply(?) used as a means of procreation.
That is apart from anything about the various churches getting their own “houses in order” before seeking to interfere in how consenting adults live their lives. I am reminded of the many and various scandals of gentlemen of the cloth (of various demonations) engaging in sexual activity with people to whom thay are not married. Apart from the many cases where they could not legally marry the victim, (leaving aside any church rules) because the other party is either underage or of the same sex.
They have captured Heaven for themselves!
It was reported in the Weekend Australian “that Campbell Newman was, according to Andrew Wilkie, A deep conservative and a friend of the Howards. UGH!
Frankly, I don’t believe his is pro Gay marriage and will do the bidding of the Christian lobby and fundie barking dogs.
My partner and I went into St Mary’s cathedral in Sydney in March to see the art and get away from the busy city streets for half an hour. After 30 seconds it crossed my mind to remove my cap (even though there were no signs asking visitors to). A crowd of foreign tourists, mainly Japanese couples, passed us, all wearing hats, so I thought there must not be a hat removal policy. Minutes later a security guard demanded that I remove my cap. It was such an abrupt “request” that I calmly said no, citing the hat wearing crowd next to us. What ensured was a homophobic rant where we were stalked up and down the nave, the security guy impersonating his idea of a gay man, pretending to call the police, refusing to give his name, claiming that the foreign tourists were all women, and that women are allowed to wear hats in catholic churches. Other cathedral denizens gathered in a pack to hound us out the door, ranting about god’s rules and the authority of the roman church. We were happy to leave. Walking down the steps the penny dropped – Mardi Gras had just finished, and no doubt St Mary’s is one of the closest catholic strongholds to a gay and lesbian community in Australia, so their gaydars are well-honed and set on maximum. We were planning to go to the museum afterwards, but my partner said “no, let’s go shopping, I’ve had enough antiquities for one day.” The catholic authority in Australia just does not get it, despite what any of the flock might say, and it’s no wonder this weekend’s media is full of advertisements for people to attend church services – if you have to advertise something it’s not popular.
@ Robert Hagedorn…
Recon “androgynous, Yahweh whose sons are many”, had Adam and Steve in mind originally, much to the horror of some Christians.
Seeing he was obsessed with making TOY BOYS before making Eve.
First made was Lucifer, to love God only and God only to love Lucifer.
Lucifer couldn’t handle the grumpy old bastard and shot through with eternal Lillith.
Next came Michael…We don’t know why he got tired of Mick to conjure up Adam.
Anyway, the last time I walked into a Catholic Church, I noted they were stubbornly viewing life through Stain Glass, just like a Roman Dictator, and still had complete control of the Sacraments, Miracles for sale, Shroud of Turin Beach Towels on special and still insisting on a Virgin birth.
All this pop-corn Theology still vergin on the ridiculous.
I like many other doubtful Catholics will still stand up in the foreign dominated, Vatican pews and ask questions and demand answers..
Until then…… I’ll attend St. Marys breakaway Catholic Church of South Brisbane…Wonderful place if you wan’t to feel freely spiritual and fulfilled.
There are just over 1500 Catholic Priest left in Australia with a one fith of these imported. The average age is 64. So within our lifetime we will see the last Church doors close in Australia.
The Catholic Church stopped caring about what the Masses think long ago.
Jacob, I suspect that the wealthy greedy profligate corrupt hypocritical deceitful blackmailing paedophile-harbouring authoritarian oligarchy of the Catholic Church tends to do a fine job of destroying itself. Hoisted on its own petard, you might say.
No, on second thought, I’m with Jacob. Stuff the US Public Religion Research Institute. (Who needs “statistical evidence” anyway?). Just walk into a church near you and feel the vibe. Maybe ask God to reveal it to you while you’re there? Pfft.
Jacob, I have strong small ‘l’ affiliations and am self funded. I do not consider myself of the ‘left’. Yet I consider it is my right to choose whether I should or should not get married as a secular right.
Idiot.
According to the story, God really did make Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. (I know, this is getting old and tired, but its true.) But…Adam and Steve could have done exactly the same thing Adam and Eve did. Do a search: The First Scandal. Then click twice.
You guys can’t ever find Catholics like me who believe the Pope and the true leaders of the Church are completely right?
Most of these “ordinary Catholics” don’t even go to mass or participate in church culture in any way. You only ever hear from them when there’s some local news team or NYT comes calling for quotes to use in the latest anti-Catholic smear piece.
How bout you actually go to a church and see what the majority of people who are actually there believe. If you don’t like it fine, but it’s absolutely pathetic the way you leftists spend all of your time trying to destroy the Catholic Church…as if you’re that secret cabal of evil leaders you always accuse the Church of being!
I do not think it is ever going to happen in mine and my partners lifetime anyway
Marriage is firstly civil and contractual, and as such is a civil right. Period.
Cheers, Joe Mustich, Connecticut Justice of the Peace, USA.