Researching gay shame
Does growing up in a straight world affect the wellbeing of gay men? How much pressure does a pervasive straight culture have on them?
These are questions being posed by a La Trobe University student hoping to research a link between shame and embarrassment in gay men.
Master of Counselling Psychology student Adam Becker says research suggests a proneness to shame and embarrassment can impact on the health and wellbeing of gay men, and can be associated with reduced self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and social isolation.
What I want to find out is how the experience of shame impacts on wellbeing. A lot of the research shows that, not just among gay men, but marginalised minority groups, the internalisation of the larger cultural norms lead to a shame-based identity or shame which can affect people’s wellbeing, he said.
I’m interested to sit down with gay men and talk to them about what their experience is in terms of shame and embarrassment linked to their sexuality.
Although the climate of fear around homosexuality has vastly changed over the last 20 years, Becker said shame around sexuality is still present.
People still -˜come out’ in an environment with larger cultural values around heterosexuality, so they’re still challenging cultural norms. When people are brought up, they internalise cultural barriers around heterosexuality being normal. When they go through the -˜coming out’ process they, to some extent, challenge those firmly held beliefs that can still reach a sense of shame.
The study is seeking a small sample group at first. Participants need to be over 18 years old and commit to one to two hours of two face-to-face interviews. Participants will remain anonymous.
Becker hopes the research will help further develop counselling and support services for gay men and foster an understanding of the influence shame can play in their daily lives.
I’m really interested in what it means for counselling with gay men, how we effectively work through issues of shame, and what it means for the knowledge of counsellors or psychologists, in the way we approach counselling.
info: To take part in the study, contact Adam on 0437 755 580 or [email protected]
James – “Chris – please calm down. I smply gave an opinion on why gay acceptance is not as strong in society as what you’d like it to be”
James thanks for rubbing it in, there will only be more acceptance when people like yourself change your opinions on gays and lesbians.
Chris – please calm down. I smply gave an opinion on why gay acceptance is not as strong in society as what you’d like it to be.
As for you being grossed out being with a girl, well fair enough. You’re gay so of course it would gross you out! Calling it unnatural, etc is exactly what it is from your point of view. Why would I take offence at it?
James …I have said it many times before and I will say it again. You are in a gay and lesbian space when you post comments on this forum. SHOW SOME RESPECT!or leave !!
How dare you come into our space and make such blatantly dissrespectful and insulting comments about OUR SEXUALITY-
‘people imagine them (or two guys) having sex and it simply grosses them out. This is why they use the term -œunnatural, because to them it’s simply not the -œway it’s meant to be.
‘anal sex (i.e. -œunnatural as per my first point)’
James , for a lot of us putting a penis, finger or tongue in a vagina ‘ grosses us out!and is totally unnatural.We are not so stupid or insulting to go onto a site for heterosexuals and state this as it would be insulting and dissrepectful .
that is the difference between you and us i suppose.
James – “I like contributing to this forum. Sure, most people probably think I’m a bigot and would like to see me leave (or be chucked off) but that’s okay. I know that what I write must be offensive to some people, but I can honestly say that that’s not my intention. I can also honestly say that some of the people that have responded to me in a reasonable manner, such as Jason, The Editor and chillisauce100, have given me an appreciation of the trials and tribulations that you guys face in broader society”
James – Okay im going to state the obvious here. In some ways James this website and forum is a “safe” place to discuss GLBT issues and when you come onto this forum and place comments that are obviously going to cause a stir people are going to get a little pisssed off, if you want more users to take your seriously and respect you and not call you a moron like whats happened in the past I suggest you be a little wiser in your comments otherwise your comments are just going to be ignored like I do sometimes and when I do reply like now its only reluctantly.
Getting very b o r i n g !!! Won’t change in our lifetime!
James/Oliver – Whats sad is the gay guys who are not naturally camp but feel they have to be camp to be accepted, and I feel that if more gay men were visable on television then perhapes a number of gay guys may not act camp to feel accepted by the likes of there straight female friends. Dont get me wrong I think naturally camp guys can be cute but gay guys acting camp is not so cute. James maybe your nuggety little guy you see has a bad fashion sense, who knows.
I find the campness, whether live or in the media, to be like a bad caricature. But then there’s this nuggety little guy I see some mornings when I’m waiting for my coffee come camping up the road either in his super-short, super-tight shorts (or tight jeans in winter) and you have to wonder.
No Jason, your not rambling and dont shut up because your words are well said, its so true what you say. Sometimes people push the campness on you when we already have a natural Half Male Half Female Balance coming from our sub conscious.
Oliver I understand where your comming from, I suspect some hetrosexuals are not very familiar with gay guys and the only gay people they see are the ones in Will & Grace or Zach from Big Brother back in 2007, so I can kinda understand why some people are disapointed when your not the sterotype they imagined, and I also believe that because there are virtually no gay role models for gay youth is that they feel have to act like a sterotype to be accepted when in reality they should just be themselves. I dont know about you but I can normally tell the difference between a gay guy who is natually camp and a gay guy who is acting camp to be accepted and its not a pretty look, No wonder some hetrosexuals see though the act and wrongly assume that gay men purposly act over the top camp and dont understand why we dont tone it down. Sorry I have rambled on here, I’ll shut up now.
Great forum and comments, opinions from everyone, yes, everyone on this topic. I don’t particularly agree with some of the posts, but that is the very nature of a good debate. I truly wish there were more ‘James’ in the world: thinking, honest, exploring, forthright, black and white in their language. So easy to deal with, even if you disagree with them!
I’m a very typical gay person in the suburbs. My partner of 8 years and I have a house surrounded by several young families, student renters, middle aged working class people – single, gay, straight. Some are fat and lazy, some are driven to succeed in projects that appear to consume them – a renovation, career, raising young children. Voters from every major political party make up this group, some are sports nuts like me, some are ‘foodies,’ some are great socializer, some turn away when they see you in the street.
I don’t think any of them give care about the fact that I sleep with a man; it doesn’t matter to them. Many have relationships that have not lasted as long as mine, few have traveled as extensively, live surrounded by beauty born in good taste, or fit as much into a day as me.
It seems as if Gen Y will not differentiate between their friends on the basis of their sexual orientation. Although many feel otherwise, I believe that most of me being gay is a choice that I made when I fell in love with a man. My partner knew he was gay as a child. My sports team has players aged 19 – 50, speaking 9 different languages. The younger the player, the more likely they are to have a circle of friends where sexuality is not a major drama any more.
There is no doubt that the excesses of the 90s have killed an important part of the gay ghetto in Sydney, especially the damage caused by drugs, disease and the reaction to homophobic behaviour. Sydney has witnessed the demise of a crucial part of culture on the fringe – that of being gay, out and proud and the ‘outrageous excesses’ it spawned. Place too much yeast in the brew and eventually it will explode, as seen in gay culture.
Will we ever see the rise of the creativity, artistic challenge, ideas on the edge of mainstream thought again? History suggests Gen Z may see the wheel turn once more if conservative forces impose bigotry over acceptance, tolerance and equality. It is our task to oppose this path.
Not all of us cruise Oxford Street on a week to week Basis. Theres pleanty of nice wine Bars in the City where we can have a nice drink and pleasant atmosphere which is neither sleaze oriented or have a screen with Football playing loudly. Thats the big problem living in Sydney. People think because Im Gay that Im only restricted to Oxford St and on the weekends I put on my sequins, make up my face, grab any mans bottom and sleep around. Its hard for me to even have female friends because they either try to convert me or expect me to be a Carson Kressley or the one from Will & Grace. Then the Gay world is definately NOT one big happy family. Most guys I come across play mind games and have enormous hang ups. That is why I only venture out on the scene once a year but according to society I have to live a so called GAY LIFESTYLE. Im happy while I can still breathe in oxygen and my hearts still beating. Thankyou!
Of course gay people can be awesome. My colleague is an absolutely first class person. Sure, I may not agree with, or “get” certain aspects of her life, but quite frankly it ain’t my business what she does and who she does it with. She’s a totally solid person.
Really, people that refuse to interact with gay people are just idiots. I’ve got a pretty fixed view on the world, but I love hearing other people’s point of view when they differ so greatly from mine, particularly if they are put forward in a rational manner. I honestly find really diverse views fascinating, regardless of whether I subscribe to them or not. What drew me to this website was reading a hardcopy of the SSO newspaper that I picked up in a pub in Erskineville. I must admit that I found the articles, advertisements, and most of the opinions of the contributors pretty fucking bizzare, but I guess that’s why I find your “sub-culture” (for want of a better term) so interesting.
I’ve been to gay bars and I must admit, they are not my first choice to go to for a drink, mostly because I feel so out of place. I don’t have a problem going to them now and then but my gay friends insist that we do. It’s this insistence that I have a gripe with more than anything else; they come across all “Amway” in their pushiness.
I like contributing to this forum. Sure, most people probably think I’m a bigot and would like to see me leave (or be chucked off) but that’s okay. I know that what I write must be offensive to some people, but I can honestly say that that’s not my intention. I can also honestly say that some of the people that have responded to me in a reasonable manner, such as Jason, The Editor and chillisauce100, have given me an appreciation of the trials and tribulations that you guys face in broader society. Sure, I’ll never understand them and most times I won’t agree with them, but I’ve got more of an appreciation of them than what I had before. And no, that doesn’t mean that I’m in the closet.
James – “I work with a lesbian, who’s an awesome person, but she does fit the dyke stereotype”
Well Im please to hear that you acknowledge that GLBT people can be awesome (even if they are steriotypical), as Ive heard stories about hetrosexuals refusing interact with GLBT people. Also my advice to you is that if its an issue for you to visit a gay bar is to honestly let your friends know and if they are a true friends they will understand your needs, Ive got a straight friend who is not comfortable in the gay bars/clubs and he told me this after he kept changing his mind and making up excuses constantly just before we were to go out to a gay club/bar, but Im not prepared to lose a friend over such an issue so I worked around it, your GLBT friends should understand this (even though it will probably annoy them) if you are still in contact and socialise with them.
Jason – I had some openly gay friends but once they came out of the closet they drifted away and became fully ensconced in the gay scene. Now if you try to meet up with them it just haaaaaas to be some gay bar on Oxford St or in Newtown; no negotiation for it to be anywhere else even if it inconveniences everyone else. Anyway Jason, you’re my openly gay friend!
I work with a lesbian, who’s an aweomse person, but she does fit the dyke stereotype (eg. overweight, short hair, wears vests, looks rather male, etc).
James- the reason why we’re still having this discussion when 75% of Australians are accepting of gays and lesbians is that the remaining 25% is split between both major parties, and you need 51% to form Government in a democratic society.
Unfortunately homophobes are perceived to be more likely to change their vote based on hate than non-homophobic voters are going to vote against their perceived economic self interest to support gay equality.
Pro-gay Liberals generally aren’t going to switch to voting Green (or Labor if they changed their policies), and Pro-gay Laborites generally aren’t going to start voting Green (or Liberal if they changed their policies) on gay rights alone unless it effects them (or a close family member) personally.
The result is that both the major parties pander to homophobes when developing their platforms, which gives that homophobic minority a power of influence far beyond their actual numbers.
James – Not all blonds are dumb and not all Indians eat curry. Gay people are not all hair dresses or airline stewarts, with some gay men or lesbian women you would never know there sexuality unless they actually told you. Do you actually have any openly gay friends ? Because judging by your comments I would be surpised if you did.
Editor – we may agree to disagree, but I do see where you are coming from with some of your points, and I disagree with others.
However, the disgustingly drunk straight people you see on Oxford Street certainly do get “stereotyped” (although maybe not by you). Many times on these forums they’ve been referred to as “straights” (in a derogatory manner), bogans, westies, people from “the ‘burbs” (again in a derogatory manner), etc, not that it bothers me; no doubt they are bogans (and probably straight ones at that). Fair call I’d say.
In a previous post I think I mentoned where I work rather than where I live. It’s a really nice place, except the train station’s fucking atrocious. If lived here I’d also be fighting against the new supermarket. For what it’s worth, I signed the petition in Sofia’s. I hope you win that one (again).
I don’t think there is any such thing as “homosexual lifestyle”. The reality is that most men and women that happen to be gay just go about living their lives juggling work, obligations and interests just like everyone else. This is an inconvenient truth for bigoted straights so they look for proof of their twisted ideas about gays at the Mardi Gras parade and any public event like it.
Editor – “James, the stereotypes you refer to here are hardly indicative of the gay and lesbian community as a whole.”
It may not be, (and I personally am not saying that it is), but that’s how it’s heavily advertised by the gay community, that’s how they are promoting it, and therefore that’s how the broader community see it.
Editor’s note: No James, that is how elements of the straight community prefers to perceive us. A careful look at this publication as a whole over an extended period of time would show you that.
We play sport, care for our families, have children, work hard and have mortgages just like other people.
Yes, a section of the community likes to party at the weekend – just like a sample of the stright community likes to do the same.
I see many disgustingly drunk straight people on Oxford Street every weekend – heck, I see them during the week when I arrive at the office early in the morning or leave late at night.
They are abusive, disrespectful, foul-mouthed and rude.
I choose not to stereotype all straight people as being the same because I am mature enough to realise it is only a small part of that community.
Gay and lesbian people are no different.
I note you have stated in previous posts that you actually live close to me. I see non-scene gay people in and around my suburb all the time.
Perhaps it is because they ‘blend in’ that you are unable to see beyond the stereotype yourself.
Jason @3:12pm – you make some good points and you are probably correct. But people “judge and attach labels to people they dont know and understand” all the time to all sorts of people. eg. gays to christians, christians to gays, jews to muslims, salt shakers to pepper shakers, etc.
Andrew M. Potts – seriously mate, and disregarding what I might think, if 75% of people think that homosexuality is fine and dandy we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
James, actually polling shows us three quarters of Australians sees homosexuality as just fine and dandy. It’s the haters that are in the minority but as they tend to only mix with their own, sadly many of them still believe they’re in a silent majority.
James – “Society views acts of homosexuality as wrong, unnatural, and not very nice. They see the homosexual lifestyle as being one of excess, promiscuity and physically unhealthy. They see homosexual men as painful, agenda-pushing, bitches and they see homosexual females as generally overweight, aggressive, typical -œdykes”
Yes some people do view gays and lesbians as such, and these people generally have no understanding of gays and lesbians, In fact they will probably never understand GLBT people, all they do is judge and attach labels to people they dont know and understand, these people in my opinion will spend there whole life doing that to other people who dont seem to fit in there own little world. I prefer to believe that these people dont exist. I could say the same things about hetrosexual people but then I would be a hypocrite.
Chillisauce100 – there are a number of answers as to why society thinks that way.
I think that people think of homosexuality as “wrong” in the same way that they think it’s “wrong” when they see a 20 year old girl with her 60 year old boyfriend (which I’ve seen), or that 29 year old model Kristy Hinze with her 64 year old husband. Using the same example, people imagine them (or two guys) having sex and it simply grosses them out. This is why they use the term “unnatural”, because to them it’s simply not the “way it’s meant to be”. In all honesty, I think that it’s hard-wired into people’s nature or makeup to think this way, rather than them being “homophobic” as such.
As for the homosexual lifestyle, people think the way they do because of the way that the lifestyle is promoted by homosexual people. It’s defined by mardi gras, sleaze balls (or sleazy balls!), ecstacy, saunas, anything goes, anonymous sex in public toilets, unsafe sex, anal sex (i.e. “unnatural” as per my first point), etc, etc. It’s one big sleazy party. Sure, some heterosexual people live a similar lifestlye (drugs, prostitutes, etc, etc) and their lifestyle is equally condemned by the broader community.
I’m being honest here and am not intending to offend.
Editor’s note: James, the stereotypes you refer to here are hardly indicative of the gay and lesbian community as a whole. For every ‘stereotype’ you refer to there are probably 10 equvilent gay people leading ordinary lives. That straight people choose to focus on one minority stereotype is their failing, not ours.
The Mardi Gras has not helped with Gay acceptance. I fact its made things worse. Sometimes I feel more excluded amongst Gays then when Im around Straights. Generally a lot of Gay men cant accept themselves! I do however accept that it took a male and a female to create a Gay Oliver! Thanks Mum & Dad!!!
James – Hopefully the purpose of the companion study would be to determine why, society holds the views you have accurately represented.
Perhaps a study of “straight” homophobes who seem obsessed the lives of gay men and frequent gay websites could be useful as well.
Chillisauce100 – I don’t think people have a “pathological hatred of homosexuals” as such. Society views acts of homosexuality as wrong, unnatural, and not very nice. They see the homosexual lifestyle as being one of excess, promiscuity and physically unhealthy. They see homosexual men as painful, agenda-pushing, bitches and they see homosexual females as generally overweight, aggressive, typical “dykes”.
I’m trying to answer your question in an honest way.
At last, a seemingly worthwhile academic project on gay lifestyle!
A good companion study would be one which seeks to discover why people have a pathological hatred of homosexuals – why parents of gay children hate their own children.