Anti-gay marriage forum in Melbourne
The Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) will join with several other religious organisations to hold an anti-gay marriage event in Melbourne this weekend.
‘Defending Marriage’ will be held at the South Eastern Christian Centre in Endeavour Hills on Sunday, May 15, and has been organised by the ACL, the Ethos Centre for Christianity and Society, the Australian Family Association and the Presbyterian Church of Victoria.
The forum is being advertised as a way ‘to help resource Christians to play their part in defending marriage against the push to have it re-defined’ and of ‘opposing the drive for same-sex marriage in Australia’.
Speakers at the event included ACL chief of staff Lyle Shelton, and US professor Dale Kuehne.
Kuehne is the author of Sex and the iWorld: Rethinking Relationship beyond an Age of Individualism, and a ‘traditional’ marriage advocate. He teaches politics at St Anselm, Georgetown — a Catholic college in New Hampshire — and is an ordained pastor.
Australian Marriage Equality (AME) national convenor Alex Greenwich told the Star Observer he was unsure why the ACL called their forum ‘Defending Marriage’, when no one was attacking marriage.
“Let me once again provide the ACL with the assurance that GLBTIQ Australians have the greatest respect for the institution of marriage, and that is why we are fighting so hard to be a part of it,” he said.
“The continued campaign by the ACL against our rights is a call to action for all supporters of equality to contact their federal representatives about this key issue.”
Well done gay not,
Bout time someone on this site spoke sense…
Gay Not: It is just as obvious America’s ills are linked to it’s refusal to allow same-sex marriage…God is ANGRY with the people of the United States for refusing to celebrate an expression of love!
The Gay Marriage Disgrace
(August 15, 2011) In support of gay marriage, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo asked for “one logical reason” why it should be denied.
Why are we pretending we don’t know what the issue is. It’s about morality, Governor.
History has shown that some great nations and empires have gone through the same three basic stages: prosperity, corruption and immorality, and destruction.
The U.S. was, and perhaps still is, the most prosperous nation on earth. That corruption has become rampant in our time is evidenced by the conduct of employees of such institutions as Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Enron, etc., and many government officials.
And you don’t have to dig too deep to see the decline in today’s moral standards. All you need is to watch a few episodes of TV shows from the 1950s and compare the language and demeanor to those of TV shows of the 21st Century; it’s like day and night.
Movies today, fugetaboutit! There are no constraints in the movies; anything goes.
(Please note, vile TV shows and movies, per se, are not the problem. It’s their acceptance by the public that are symptoms of a morally degraded society. By the same token, rampant corporate and government corruption is a symptom of a corrupt population.)
But here’s the strange difference between the decline of honesty and the decline of morality. When it comes to the decline in honesty, people complain about corporate executives and government officials. But when it comes to the decline in morality, you always here the same stupid remark: We’ve come a along way.
Yes, we’ve certainly come a long way.
We’ve already gone through the first two stages that preceded the demise of some great civilizations: prosperity and moral decline. And we’ve begun our slide into the third stage, a financially unstable abyss, the likes of which we’ve never experienced. And no one knows how to fix it.
After all those years of prosperity, you’d thing we would have become good at sound financial planning, the way doctors become better doctors, engineers become better engineers, etc., after years of being in practice. But, it’s as if we’ve suddenly become financial morons. The “experts” can’t even agree on what the solution is, let alone implement one.
What does this tell you? It should tell you that we were never prosperous because of our cunning intelligence or brilliance, in the first place.
Is the connection between moral decay and calamity just a coincidence?
In 1980, the Democratic Party became the first major political party in the U.S. to endorse a homosexual rights platform. That same year, David McReynolds was the first openly gay man to run for President in the U.S.
The year 1980 was certainly a period of great milestones in the history of gays in this country. But there was another milestone in 1980 that many have forgotten, as described by an article on New York magazine’s NYMag.com, an excerpt of which reads:
“In early 1980 a young gay man in New York City contracted an unusual illness that defied diagnosis. Upon his death an autopsy revealed that he had suffered from toxoplasmosis, a disease caused by cell-invading parasites. Joel Weisman, a Los Angeles doctor, noticed that a number of his patients — all homosexuals — were suffering from an illness he diagnosed as cytomegalovirus (CMV). Five suspicious cases of pneumocystis in Los Angeles were reported to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta … In the summer of 1981, physicians in New York City found 26 gay patients suffering from Kaposi’s sarcoma, a rare form of skin cancer. Normally, these were treatable afflictions, but in each case the patient’s immune system was abnormally, mysteriously, suppressed. By the end of the summer the CDC was aware of 70 more cases of Kaposi’s and pneumocystis in New York and California. The victims were young , white, gay males, and 40 percent of them had died. The CDC announced that the ‘fact that these patients were all homosexuals suggests an association between some aspect of a homosexual lifestyle’ and the disease.”
By 1982, the disease responsible for the above cases was named GRID — Gay-related immune deficiency. Only after gays complained about the stigma attached to the name GRID, the disease was renamed to AIDS.
By the end of 2008, the total number of deaths, according to the CDC, of people in the U.S. diagnosed with AIDS was over 617,000.
An epidemic that has its origins in a lifestyle, and is still predominant in that lifestyle to this day, is unprecedented in history. What’s particularly odd is that AIDS existed globally and in this country before the 1980s, but the epidemic in this country did not begin until 1980.
So, instead of recognizing the history of moral decay, we have a Governor of a great state such as New York with the gall to make speeches as if it’s a moral obligation to support a base lifestyle, and as if the passage of his gay marriage bill was a noble act. What an absolute disgrace.
We must rid ourselves of such politicians and get back to the values that made this a great nation. We’ve witnessed prosperity and we’ve witnessed financial collapse. You don’t have to be a Bible scholar to see the connection between a nation’s success and its Bible-based traditional values.
Some people seem to be under the impression that God’s existence depends on their belief in His existence. That’s like thinking the IRS will not exist if I believe it doesn’t exist. Either way, you’ll pay your taxes. It’s just a question of whether you’ll pay voluntarily or involuntarily.
You may have the free will to believe or not to believe in God, but God runs the world in either case. Our politicians can obviously not pull us out of this financial mess, maybe it’s time to start thinking of a Higher Authority. The first step would be to get rid of all politicians who have completely lost their moral compass.
As a christian, I’m not anti homosexuals. I wish them all the best with their lives and hope they find what they are looking for. It makes me sad that christians are made out as such villains. It’s also disappointing that they want us to respect their views but refuse to respect ours.
The problem is, you think sexual orientation, defines someone and changes the way you act as a human being. WRONG. HATE DOES, which is what your doing. What skin is it off your back if someone is in love with another person…..hmmmm nothing. Get over yourself, stop using religion as a weapon, and wake up, your promoting ppl not to be in love. This world is darker than ever and you want to stop ppl from being in love. Yeah that’s totally what “god” would of wanted, ppl hating each other over a book that wasn’t even written by god or jesus anyway. The bible is a interpretation of what went on. You really trust the church that much to make a fool outta yourself. Gay couple are the same as any other couple, successful, happy, good ppl, who have had idiots like you telling them their whole life that they are wrong, well your whats wrong with this picture, not them. What a dark small heart you ppl have, which is ironic, because you stand with the “church” behind you thinking that makes what your saying legit, it doesn’t makes you look closed mined scared bigets.
Owen… I find it interesting that you say that most gays/lesbians dont have stable relationships. When I know in actual fact all my friends in relationships are all stable and perfectly ‘normal’. Also further to the point lets look at Britney Spears, she was in a relationship for all of LESS THAN 72hrs!! Wow, she must really respect the sanctity of marriage. I totally agree with you now.
As for alternate parenting, all a child needs is love and security. They dont need a mother AND a father; or just a mother or just a father. As long as a child has Love; security; and is looked after and cared for a child will grow up and be happy. Shows you obviously dont understand Relationships or Children.
Professor Judith Stacey, of New York University, stated: “Rarely is there as much consensus in any area of social science as in the case of gay parenting, which is why the American Academy of Pediatrics and all of the major professional organizations with expertise in child welfare have issued reports and resolutions in support of gay and lesbian parental rights”.
In addition, the following is included in a statement from a joint statement of the major American psychological associations:
“Empirical research over the past two decades has failed to find any
meaningful differences in the parenting ability of lesbian and gay parents compared to heterosexual parents.”
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2010/10/27/amicus29.pdf
Or, from the Canadian Psychological Association:
“There is no evidence in the psychological literature that gay and lesbian persons are less fit to parent than are heterosexual persons.”
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2010/10/27/amicus29.pdf
Although a quote from Wikipedia, this is an accurate summery of credible Psychological evidence endorsed by key credible medical associations:
“major associations of mental health professionals in the U.S., Canada, and Australia, have not identified credible empirical research that suggests otherwise”.
Please qualify your label ‘nonsense’ with some evidence.
It is interesting looking at the history of Same-Sex Marriage from Ancient China and Ancient Rome, to modern day Catholic Spain. Even old Singapore used to have it.
Last year I was at my husbands Grandmothers funeral in Hong Kong. In the large funeral building there were many funerals at the same time, and you could walk past the bifold doors and see different people performing different ceremonies. There were many religions. If the myth making fundamentalist had their way, we would all be forced to have their brand of funeral and never live in peace.
Fundamentalist offer only myths, and deny the history and facts. They seek only the destruction of our way of life.
Iian Marriage has nothing to do with Christianity. It never has. What a stupid thing to say. What do you think happened at Samurai Gay Weddings, a Christian Priest came along?
You have chosen the path of a crackpot fundamentalist. How else do you describe someone who says, all other Christians have abandoned their faith if they do not agree with you. All as you can offer is rants and abuse, no substance or facts. That is the problem with a fundamentalist, they seek the destruction of others who they do not agree with.
I would hardly call the Uniting Church not mainstream, yet you can be ordained if you are homosexual. And we know of the millions of Christians who support us around the world let alone my local Anglican Bishop and his priest who are helping GLBTI people. There are so many good people helping us every day, there are so many Christian leaders who helps us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_Church_in_Australia
When flat-earth, Book-Burners are on the march, Atheism is the order of the day!
I have reflected back to my Catholic School Library days, and had realized that there was not a book on Tolstoy or Darwin.
We children listened to quaint tales of Wind In The Willows and Treasure Island, whilst the men and women in black vandalized the librarys.
Leaving school, some curious Christians were never rendered harmless, and continue to stand up in the Church Pulpits today to demand questions and answers.
Ignorance is ignorance. It does not matter how much it is blessed or prayed over, or sprinkled with holy water….It still remains ignorance.
Again, do you seriously believe this rhetoric and scaremongering? Patrick, there is no credible scientific evidence to suggest that a child suffers no disadvantage with gay parents. That is nonsense.
Dave, no one is denying your right to marriage as it is meant to be. You have your civil rights and gay marriage has nothing to do with them.
Editor’s Note: Actually, Iain, if you Google Gay Parenting Study you will find an extensive number of credible scientific studies in recent years which clearly demonstrate that child raised in a same-sex relationship fares no better or worse than a child raised by a heterosexual couple.
We are a multi-faith and multi-cultural society. We have always been a country of many beliefs, and what has made us successful is keeping the views of one religion out of law. As we know millions of Christians support us and stand with us.
The greatest threat we have as a nation is a fringe religious fundamentalist group ever having power, or their myths being put into law to create a Police State. If the Australian Family Association had any power, I have no doubt we would again be sent to gas chambers in the name of their version of God. The Nazi’s did this, and I see little difference in the hate that both spouted.
We will stay the course, and continue to fight for our Civil Rights, and by doing so, help save Australia from religious extremist who seek the destruction of our country we love.
We will make this country a decent place, respectful of you and your right to live freely. We have come so far down the yellow brick road, we can finally see what OZ will look like. Keep your pride and keep up your good work! Remember you are only asking for the right to live as freely as the next person. It is your right to do this.
Iain, regarding your previous comment about raising children, the vast bulk of scientific evidence, as well as consensus among psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists support the the statement that gay parents can be as successful as heterosexual parents. Indeed, there is not a credible body of endorsed evidence recognised by the mainstream scientific community that gay parenting has a negative impact. So, the question is, should we follow you, a Christian who makes statements without evidence, or an impartial scientist? Who do we rely on for every other scientific matter? What about the numerous children who have been raised by gay parents and have flourished?
As for marriage Iain, nobody is threatening your right to have a heterosexual, traditional or discriminatory marriage. However, don’t prevent others from making their own choice for their own lives. Our choices regarding marriage should end at our own marriages, and not be imposed on others. This also relates to your religion. Express your religion how you want in marriage, but, as marriage is a civil law, religion is no longer able to dictate divorce laws, rape in marriage, the role of women in marriage, or, outside religion, racists allowed to dictate that marriage be subject to anti-miscegenation laws- religious views of marriage should not stop those with differing views or the non-religious from accessing a civil law.
Id also like to add that the perpetrators of this bigotry are going down in the history books just as the racists who wouldnt let the black man ride at the front of the bus have done. And it will be viewed with the same level of disgust. Decent people will view it as a disgrace, but your average fundamental “christian” knows nothing about decency.
” Any “Christian” who supports homosexuality has therefore become a victim of the abusive and oppressive homosexuality agenda and has abandoned their faith.”
As opposed to the bigoted, oppressive and abusive agenda of the ACL right. It never ceases to amaze me how so called christians have decided to paint themelves as victims of the same prejudice that they have been perpetrating and inflicitng on the gay community forever just because they are called out on their blatant prejudices.
Mainstream Christians do not support homosexuality. Despite your desperation to believe otherwise, it is contrary to the teachings of both the Old and New Testament and therefore contrary to Christianity. Any “Christian” who supports homosexuality has therefore become a victim of the abusive and oppressive homosexuality agenda and has abandoned their faith. Again, picking anecdotal evidence about scattered “Christians” does not suddenly make it that mainstream Christianity supports homosexuality. Just as scaremongering about this event does not make it any less illegitimate. My question still stands, do you actually believe this rhetorical nonsense about ‘goose-stepping-Book burners’ or are you just really good making things up?
JESUS…Save me from your followers!
You will know these goose-stepping-Book burners by their actions.
One hand is out-streached in a loving caring manner, whilst the other hand is hidden….Containing a Noose and a Match.
You know how inventive and clever Gay people are…Why not stage a simulated horny, virgin burning at their meeting.
Their simple followers will abandon their evil groomers, who urge them forward, to watch and rub their little peckers with glee.
One can easily look at Anglican Bishop John McIntyre of Gippsland, who has travelled to many parts of Australia championing the rights of people in the GLBTI community and breaking down barriers. He is also greatly critical of religious businesses ability to discriminate.
http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/local/news/general/bishop-to-bring-an-equality-message/2109935.aspx
http://www.edstandards.com.au/index.php?education_standards_institute=102&archive=119
There are Bishops that have larger congregations then all the people the Australian Christian Lobby could ever hope to bring together who are battling for us. But I am very impressed with the great words of a particular Bishop who really understood discrimination. He said.
“To penalize someone because of their sexual orientation is like what used to happen to us; to be penalized for something which we could do nothing (about) — our ethnicity, our race. I would find it quite unacceptable to condemn, persecute a minority that has already been persecuted,”
Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu
We must also remember that in the US, there are many Bishops that support the rights of GLBTI people. The bishops at the Episcopal General Convention voted by 104 to 30 to “collect and develop theological resources and liturgies” for blessing same-sex relationships, to be considered at the next convention in 2012.
The resolution notes the growing number of states that allow gay marriage, civil unions and domestic partnerships, and gives bishops in those regions discretion to provide a “generous pastoral response” to couples in local parishes.
We have our own GLBTI Churches, and we must remember the “101 Reverends” who marched in Mardi Gras made up of Nuns, Baptist Ministers, Catholic Priest, and Anglican Priest and Uniting Church Ministers.
As I have been told over and over by history and many clergy, the Christian Church never owned Marriage. There was Same-Sex Marriage throughout history and it continues today even in Catholic Spain. Marriage equality will be here shortly! By the ACL putting our community on a cross, we have become united, and so have those who value Civil Rights.
Owen, if a man ever asks you to marry him, just say no. If a guy who might be in a relationship with ever says “let’s think about adopting a child” … just say no. It’s only when you have the right to do these things that your flippancy about them will be justified. Until then, please just move out of the way. Thanks.
“As one Bishop said to me, people will look back and say how could we of been so cruel to good and decent people simply because of their sexuality?”
Owen, you must be mixing with a select group of shallow people. Most of the Lesbian, gay and trans people I know want to be in a strong, affirming, durable relationship with someone they feel deeply for. I know I do. And if I found that kind of love I would want to marry. Get out and meet the rest of your community, the ones who want same-sex marriage.
You know it was an Anglican Priest in a collar that argued at Kevin Rudds 20/20 summit for Same-Sex Marriage and 99% of people agreed. There report is out there for all to see.
The minister of Sydney’s Pitt Street Uniting Church has declared homophobia to be sinful ahead of this year’s International Day Against Homophobia (IDAHO) on May 17.
Of the 300,000 people that go to Mardi Gras, and the 100,000 thousand that go midsummer, I think we should not lose much sleep over some Happy Clappers talking in tongues, and rolling their eyes, so they look like the exorcist. Mainstream Christians, no, but fundamentalist well I think so.
I would hardly call the Australian Family Association mainstream Christianity, they did say homosexuality is a cancer, and we all know what Jim Wallace did on ANZAC Day. He was condemned by so many Christians all over Australia. But the Australian Christian Lobby is just a private company made up of three company directors.
So I think I will believe the facts over the fundamentalist arguments. And for all the Christian Churches that advertise for Same-Sex couples and single people to foster children, I guess they do know what is best for the child.
I might have to get along to this event.
I agree with Owen, raising a child in an alternative arrangement is a recipe for disaster.
Dave, do you ever get tired of your own rhetoric? Or for that matter, do you actually believe it? Screaming ‘discrimination’ every time someone says something you don’t like is hardly an intellectual argument. Your skewed and biased ‘statistics’ are a bit ridiculous; as are your attempts to marginalise mainstream christianity.
Owen,
You can be against all Marriage, some people are for all sorts of reasons, but I am not with you on your proposition that homosexuals are inferior to heterosexuals as a basis of discrimination.
I had no idea marriage was a requirement to have children, so all those who are married and do not have children are well living a lie? Or that heterosexuals never go to brothels, have a affairs, and do the Arnold Schwarzenegger Gang Bang! In fact there are much more brothels then saunas last time I checked. And last I checked an Adult Book Shop, the vast majority of people were heterosexual in the magazines and DVD section. Being gay does make you a wonderful parent as most Christian Charities seek us out to foster children, and most children in care are from married couples. Perhaps Owen you can provide proof most gay relationships are “Open” as you must know most of the gay people in Australia. I can say though, you are correct in some gay people do not respect one another by your slanderous posting. But then again most killers in jail are not gay so we have no monopoly on not respecting each other.
I dont beleive in Gay marriage because most gay relationships are “open relationships” and the Gay community is the most unstable in nature. Gays need to start respecting one another before any sort of unions are considered. As a Gay man myself, really marriage is between a man and a woman and is a normal sanctity for raising children. Alternative parenting will just confuse the kids.
oh well now that Osama is ded they have to have meetings about something!
oh btw… “He teaches politics at St Anselm, Georgetown — a Catholic college in New Hampshire — and is an ordained pastor.” – another idiot mixing religion with politics… i wonder if Abbott will be speaking at this ever so miniscule un-noteworthy event??
What about defending secularism from these militant haters of true religious freedom, who would see their particular religious morals and beliefs imposed by default *not only* on all Christians but on other believers and non-believers in Australia as well?
The ACL and its co-conspirators (ICCOREIS, ACCESS Ministries, Scripture Union, The Bible Society, and the pentecostal churches to name a few) keep pushing for taxpayer funds to plant religious operatives in public schools as chaplains and special religious instructors.
They are pursuing a self-interested biased religious agenda – to push Christian hegemony and supremacy onto Australia – which is sweet camouflaged poison to our secular liberal democracy and infringes on your religious freedom, my religious freedom, everyone’s religious freedom. It is an abomination, unnatural, and should in no way be approved.
What a joke ACL!!!!! You people are mad!!! We aren’t trying to demean the definition of marriage, when same sex marriage is legal in this country. Every church will have the choice whether they wish to allow same sex weddings in there churches, so this ‘defending marriage’ routine is a joke.
Get a life and and stop creating more hate towards the GLBTI community, by spreading this propaganda!!!!!
Within the next 10 years we will have full marriage equality.
Our struggles and hopes will continue to inspire people as they make our suffering their suffering. So many Christian Churches are reaching out to help us, so many good people across Australia continue to fight for us. I agree with the Uniting Church, homophobia is a sin!
We will never resolve from our determination to make Australia the land of a fair go. Together we have overcome so much and will continue to shine.
Just look at Mardi-Gras and Midsummer and how many thousands and thousands of people attend. All as these events can ever get is around 10-20 people as so much of the community is as disgusted with these people as we are. You could get more people not liking the Collingwood football club but I would not among them!
We celebrate life and all these groups can do is hate, hate the government, hate Christians, hate Muslims, hate ANZACS. They hate anyone who does not follow their perverted lifestyle. They spend their life in misery angry with the world and creating myths about other people.
So we have almost come to the end of the yellow brick road of equality. Soon all forms of discrimination will end, and in generations to come they will study these haters in the same way academics study the White Australia policy.
As one Bishop said to me, people will look back and say how could we of been so cruel to good and decent people simply because of their sexuality?