Crusaders spreading gay fear
Gay people aren’t very popular among those demanding more freedom of religion in a federal inquiry currently underway.
The Human Rights Commission’s freedom of religion and belief inquiry extended the timeframe for new submissions until the end of this month, but so far conservative Christians have made more contributions than every other religion or perspective combined.
The Commission released more early submissions for public comment this month. Each of the several dozen criticised vilification laws and any potential charter of rights, or specifically attacked gay rights as an incursion into their freedom of religion.
At present Christian schools and church-run welfare agencies have exemption from anti-discrimination legislation, and this needs to continue. They should not be forced by law to employ promiscuous individuals, believers in witchcraft, or practising homosexuals, wrote one public contributor, Jillian Wehr.
Her submission mirrored most of those recently made public, and comes from a pamphlet compiled by FamilyVoice Australia and distributed to Christian churches around the country.
The pamphlet asks Christians to oppose a bill of rights because it would likely introduce national religious vilification laws that could be used to prosecute Christian leaders.
We should be free to disagree with other people’s beliefs, even if that causes controversy, the pamphlet states.
A bill or charter of rights should be opposed because it would give judges the power to decide our rights -” without having to face an election.
FamilyVoice Australia’s campaign against the inquiry has also spread disinformation about last year’s same-sex reforms, equating them with marriage.
AHRC’s Same Sex: Same Entitlements project in 2007 recommended marriage [sic] rights be given to all homosexual couples. In 2008 the Rudd Government complied. Will the Rudd Government implement whatever the AHRC recommends on freedom of religion? the submission read.
During the reforms Attorney-General Robert McClelland was forced to reiterate during every interview that Australia’s marriage laws were not changing.
info: Anybody, religious or not, can make a submission to the Human Rights Commission’s freedom of religion and belief inquiry until 28 February via www.humanrights.gov.au/frb.
James,
Well, actually I believe that everyone is born bisexual and it’s just the balance of which sex you are more attracted to which is different between people. And that balance is determined by the genetical patterns we were born with.
So if someone “changes” his sexuality, then what it means is that his pereference is somewhere on the border, and if he runs into someone special he does not care about the sex of that person – but still may define his sexuality by it (i.e. will call himself straight or gay, though he is actually bisexual and did not change at all).
By the way, I as well was raised in a 100% heterosexual family, with two heterosexual older brothers, never been exposed to homosexuality, so I had nowhere to learn the “gay lifestyle” from. Still, I’m gay.
chris – firstly, if you read some scientific literature you’ll find that most scientists believe that homosexuality is, to some degree, a learned behaviour. But whether it is, or whether it’s purely biological, has not been proven.
Secondly, if homosexuality is purely the result of biology, why do some people change their sexuality midway through life? Um, are bi-sexual people the result of biology?
Thirdly, “denying equal rights to one section of the human family ( gay people)”….is not “one of the greatest inhumanities known to mankind”. Last time I checked, you and I were judged the same before the law. But I suspect that you are trying to align the gay movement to the black civil rights movement. You know, those people who were slaves for 200 years, who were declared not fully human, who were denied the right to vote, who were denied the right to buy property….Yep, I can see the similarities.
Lastly, (and I repeat) I was quoting Ingrid White when I said “lifestyle choice”. Actually, you’re talking about it being a lifestyle choice more than anyone else here. Makes you wonder.
James ….”learned behaviour “..what a nonsense !As babies kids enter a social world which is almost exclusively heterocentric….family structures, tv, media and advertising continuously bombard us with images of heterosexuality and yet gay kids still emerge out of this ‘learned behaviour’ against all the odds as gay adults…so much for learned behaviour.!!!o..lol
Religious bigots such as yourself just cannot accept that homosexuality is NOT a choice because to accept that it isn’t would expose one of the greatest inhumanities known to mankind ..that of denying equal rights to one section of the human family ( gay people)based on a characteristic that they have no control over.
-˜Lifestyle choice’ is the FALSE premise religious bigots such as James base their whole discriminatory and hateful anti – gay agenda on .One day these people and most of the
churches are going to be held accountable for this .
Note to editor: I’m certain I read something about the discovery of a gay gene back in the mid 1990s or thereabouts, and I recall it being an issue of debate in the media at the time. I certainly didn’t bring it up to be mischievous and I apologise if it appeared that way.
I guess your readers can do a web search for gay+gene (or discovery+gay+gene) to see if it yields any results and determine for themselves if there has “never been any claim of the discovery of a -˜gay’ gene and that I was being mischievous in mentioning it.
chris – I didn’t say that people choose to become homosexual, and I’m not really qualified to state whether they do or not. However in my opinion, I reckon a lot of the time it’s a learned behavior.
I remember the gay community justifying their biological existence when the gay gene was discovered. This gene has since proven to be non existent.
chris, let me ask you a questions. Does conclusive proof exist of a biological cause of sexual orientation?
One more thing Chris. You said that “sexuality is as much a -˜personal lifestlye choice’ as is the colour of the eyes you were born with you fool!” Eye colour is an inherited trait influenced by a number of identified genes. Homosexuality is not. I guess that would make you the fool, not me.
Editor’s Note: James, there has never been any claim of the discovery of a ‘gay’ gene and it is mischevious to suggest as such. Researchers, thinking that homosexulaity may be genetic, have looked for one for many years. As with much of genetic science, they are yet to find any conclusive proof. Current scientific theories centre on homosexuality being caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. This, like so many theories, is being tested but as yet there are no results.
James…i note you have ignored my last post. Please answer this question… do you believe gay people CHOOSE their sexuality ?
I am personaly sick and tired of bigots who use God as an justification for discrimination.There are many of us who have strong religious beliefs who do not hate people because of who they fall in love with.
Peter, please don’t call my example of the head master of a muslim school being a christian “mischevious”. As you think removing employment discrimination from faith based organisations is a good thing, then it goes that the example I provided is a good thing. You must agree with it as it’s a direct result of what you consider to be legal equality.
As for government funding, faith based organisations probably have more of a right to government funding that other organisations based just on the amount of unpaid charity work that they do. As you yourself have said, they “provide services to the general public (& in some cases to PLWHA)” although I don’t know what PLHA means.
James…you just don’t get it do you ?
sexuality is not a choice….it is determined in the womb!!
once you religious bigots finally concede this you will then lose your biggest weapon against us – that we CHOOSE our sexuality ( James – did you choose to be straight ?) as if we were choosing what shoes to wear in the morning.
James,we are not simply talking about “the receipt of financial assistance” we are explicitly talking about Govt. funding. Faith-based organisations that receive Govt. funding to employ staff and provide services to the general public (& in some cases to PLWHA) should abide by the same laws that all other employers or service providers are bound by. If they cannot, they should not receive tax-payers’ money. Your example of the head master of a muslim school being a christian is just mischevious and adds nothing to the debate. Give me a break.
Chris – apologies, I should have written ‘personal lifestyle choices’ in parentheses as I was quoting a sentence from Ingrid White’s comment above (see the last sentence in her fourth paragraph) who must be, according to your comment to me, a “fool”, a “bigot” and have a “discriminatory and and hateful anti-gay agenda” herself.
JAMES….sexuality is as much a ‘personal lifestlye choice’ as is the colour of the eyes you were born with you fool!
this ‘lifestyle choice’ is the false premise religious bigots such as James base their whole discriminatory and hateful anti – gay agenda on .
Sexuality is not a choice ! It is something hardwired in the brain of the foetus!!!!!(all evidence of gods /natures good work )
The idea that taking away someone else’s freedom (such as gays or people of a different faith such as Wiccans) constitutes another group’s religious freedom is extremely dangerous. Here in the States we are seeing more and more of this – the idea that you can throw the rights and freedoms of minorities up for vote to the majority (who are barely affected by that minority’s freedoms, don’t understand what it means to those affected, and of course vote in supposed self-interest spurred by fearmongering). This is a corruption of democracy called Tyranny of the Majority. If you don’t like gays, don’t be one. If you don’t like Wicca, don’t practice it. If you don’t like celery, don’t eat it. Stop making laws inhibiting other people from being who they are and doing what they like when these things don’t affect you directly. Otherwise you will have a religious war on your hands.
These conservative groups have a high level of promiscuity within them. The thicker they spread the ”morality” philosophies then be assured the greater level of hypocrisy within their groups. They do a very good job in covering up their own groups sins whilst criticising the ”sins” of others. You only have to understand how the churches have ignored child sex abuse for so long while they are behind much of the hatred against us.
Fear, guilt and hatemongering are big business.
The Exclusive Brethren are infamous for anti-GLBTI lobbying, especially at election time. They receive $17.8 million in Federal government funding, not to mention the states. There are about 2,300 children at the Brethren’s schools around the country.
Then there was Pope Benadryl’s loving Xmas message that the need to save mankind from glbqti is as important as saving the rainforests.
Pfft, like Ghandi said, “Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.” …
Maybe some of you should make a submission. :)
Heather – if a Christian school (or any religous school) has every right to decide who they employ (which I agree with), why should that right be linked to the receipt of financial assistance? Two separate issues I would have thought.
Personal lifestyle choices, like sexuality and religion, are definitely valid factors for employment in a religous school. Would you expect the head master of a muslim school to be a christian, or a homosexual, or a satanist? Give me a break.
Christian schools and welfare groups have EVERY right to decide which people they feel morally comfortable employing.
What they do NOT have a right to do, however, is use any taxpayer or government-funded assistance if they plan on discriminating against both the people they intend to help and their own potential staff members.
I’m American, and live in Minnesota, which I’m constantly being told by whining conservatives is the most liberal state in the US. I am so tired of being told that preventing discrimination against minority faiths or orientation is discrimination against the religious right I’m ready to scream. I’ve been told that preventing a christian business from discriminating against a gay or non-christian is preventing the business owner of practicing his or her religion. What sort of screwed up religion has discrimination as one of it’s practices?
It all boils down to this: the world is getting too small too quickly for people who can’t handle difference or change.
American rights give us freedom of religion. It also gives us freedom from discrimination. So what happens when somebody’s religion endorses discrimination? Well, this, of course.
Freedom of religion has restrictions of course- You can believe and practice any faith you find truth in, but your practice of religion cannot violate any other law. This is the reason why ultra-conservative Muslims are forbidden to carry out the full extent of Sharia law, which includes the death penalty for numerous “crimes” such as and converting to Christianity or any other religion.
Or if any crazy quasi-pagan UFO cult wanted to perform a mass human sacrifice (Kool-Aid style), they could not possibly do it legally, even if the “victims” consented, because it still constitutes as murder. These are instances where the law OVERRIDES people’s religious “freedom”, if it is illegal or detrimental.
And the anti-anti-discrimination law is certainly one of these instances- a clear violation of American rights! NO employer, religious or otherwise, should refuse to hire a person solely based on whether they are gay, straight, jewish, pagan, buddhist, satanist, invisible-pink-unicornist, etc. It should be based on their qualifications and behavior on the job. Personal lifestyle choices, like sexuality and religion, are NOT valid factors for employment!
YES, you can disagree with their beliefs. That’s the beauty of America, that we can have a marketplace of ideas where all voices are given a (more or less) equal chance. But that doesn’t mean that you can deny them a job!
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On a less formal note, I must state that the statements issued were underhanded, malicious, cowardly, and downright yellow-hearted.
If “religious sensibilities” are the issue, then theoretically Christian employers should also be able to discriminate against all the other hellbound heathens, such as Jews and Muslims. Certainly, this kind of statement would cause a notorious uproar, and with such wording the exemption could never gain support.
But they only mention the downtrodden minorities- pagans and gays- who are too small in number to fight back. The Commission is clearly the bully in this instance, picking on the two weak and unpopular kids in the class.
I depart with an oft-quoted word of warning:
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me–
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
-œCrusaders spreading gay fear
That’s exactly what this brand of Christianity is all about…Fear! They teach it, embrace it and propagate it.
There are times that i have mixed feelings regarding them, from pathetic or disgusted to complete pity.
As far as taking government monies, if they take it, they should be, with NO EXCEPTION, be made to abide the same laws as expected by any other group that takes government money.
Personally speaking, i’m a gay man who is also Wiccan.
the RR and groups like this, are all about fear, control, domination and a desire to control others beliefs and lives and essentially force them to live by their beliefs.
Um, no, i don’t need to be saved to their disfunctional religion or beliefs.
Bottom line, if they take the money, they can put their beliefs aside or simply DO NOT take the money and deal with it!
Even more reason we need to establish Gay-run High Schools (like the Harvey Milk School), and Gay-run Nursing Homes, as places that provide an alternative to the Church-run organisations that dominate with thier crushing suicide-inducing homophobic doctrine of hate.